Theory: preflop 3x the BB raise from the Button

Paul Thomson · #1 11-19-2007, 05:49 PM

I don't have time to write out all my musings about this, but I saw Carrotsnake and MyNamIsGregz doing this in their videos and I don't really get it.

They said that they made smaller raises from the button because it had just as much FE as a larger bet. But when I think about it, assuming that the Villain calls and folds equally regardless of my bet size, I'd rather bloat the pot when I have the button and am in position. The reason being that the avg pot size will be larger by the river where I can get more $$$ with thin value bets and what not.

Any thoughts?

djj6835 · #2 11-19-2007, 05:57 PM

Yeah I didn't really understand this either. Aren't we also going to be winning more than 50% of the pots anyways so we would want more money in there. If villain is folding to a c-bet 60% of the time then why wouldn't we makes a bigger raise pf given ther are folding/calling pf with the same frequency.

shpanko · #3 11-19-2007, 05:59 PM

It probably has something to do with the fact that you'll be getting 3-bet a [censored] ton more when opening form the button than from other positions.

pineapple888 · #4 11-19-2007, 05:59 PM

There was just some long thread about this.

I had some moron keep minraising my blinds from around back, and he said he did it to encourage the blinds to call so he could play in position.

So everyone has their theory. I doubt it matters much at all, really. You can always manipulate the pot size postflop anyway, if that's your thing.

djj6835 · #5 11-19-2007, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It probably has something to do with the fact that you'll be getting 3-bet a [censored] ton more when opening form the button than from other positions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if villain is a relatively frequent 3 bettor I have a feeling the extra money lost from having to fold pf with the larger raise is more than made up for by having more money in the pot when you see a flop. There is also the possibility that a smaller raise means getting 3 bet more often since the villain can 3 bet smaller.

Paul Thomson · #6 11-19-2007, 06:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There was just some long thread about this.

I had some moron keep minraising my blinds from around back, and he said he did it to encourage the blinds to call so he could play in position.

So everyone has their theory. I doubt it matters much at all, really. You can always manipulate the pot size postflop anyway, if that's your thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

whoops missed it. do u have a linky?

as for manipulating pot size...you're correct, but i think we all tend to operate within a standard range of 2/3 to pot size bets.

Paul Thomson · #7 11-19-2007, 06:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It probably has something to do with the fact that you'll be getting 3-bet a [censored] ton more when opening form the button than from other positions.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i thought about that also. not sure if that out weighs the benefits of the times we are called and have alarger pot. but maybe more people fold or 3-bet from the blinds then just call these days.

Shizzle12345 · #8 11-19-2007, 06:09 PM

larger pots get pple to make more mistakes. Not that the extra BB matters much tho. But usually when there are limpers i want to raise more then 3bb? Or do i miss the point here.

djj6835 · #9 11-19-2007, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
larger pots get pple to make more mistakes. Not that the extra BB matters much tho. But usually when there are limpers i want to raise more then 3bb? Or do i miss the point here.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's talking about raising the button when folded to him, not when he is isolating limpers.

pineapple888 · #10 11-19-2007, 06:12 PM

Link to other thread