This is why I'm for the death penalty.

[slickss]

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Let me first ask you, is your opposition to the death penalty based on moral (it is wrong to kill anyone, even the worst murderers out there), or is it based on practibility (we risk killing someone who we might later find out is innocent)?

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I already gave my 3 arguments against the death penalty. Consider my opposition a combination of those.

[mosdef]

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When someone I think have fulfilled everything required for him being executed I dont want or need a reversable solution. Those criminals that I feel are deserving of this penalty I think we are better off without, and dont want them in prison or anywhere else.

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BUT...

When you put such a law in place based on subjective criteria for "execution eligibility" then the subjective nature of the criteria will inevitably lead to ever-expanding application of the law. We are talking about murder and punishment/revenge. These are emotionally charged events where passionate reactions are likely to rule (see OP) if there is not a clear, objective criteria for application. If you want to say "everyone who is videotaped doing crime X and DNA evidence is found and two eye witnesses are available and the victim was a minor" or something, then you have a chance of controlling the scope of your law. But when you say "let's execute everyone found guilty of really bad crimes and only when we're really sure" you are inviting disaster.

[vhawk01]

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- Since 1973, 124 prisoners have been released in the USA after evidence emerged of their innocence of the crimes for which they were sentenced to death.

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So they weren't actually "wrongfully executed" were they?

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Wow, are you serious? I hope you realize how horrifically flawed this is. If the CIA catches like 7 spies, do they come to the conclusion that there are no spies in this country?

[tame_deuces]

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The principle is exactly the same, and Im pretty sure you know it too.

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Huh? Now I don't even know what we are talking about anymore. I certainly don't think criminal punishment is about revenge, that is a principle most civilized societies left behind hundreds of years ago. Though I'm sure many get their kicks out of believing it is and like it.

[vhawk01]

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So they weren't actually "wrongfully executed" were they?

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They were sentenced to death.

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Thats like arguing against the morality of sentencing people to serve time in prison based on the fact that people that have served time in prison are later found to beinnocent, and the government have wrongfully taken away their freedom for an often substantial time. Noone is arguing in favor of punishing innocent people.

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Ummm....except those people can later be released. So no, it isnt like that.

[Bedreviter]

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But when you say "let's execute everyone found guilty of really bad crimes and only when we're really sure" you are inviting disaster.

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Well my reasoning in this thread have mainly been based on whether or not I find the death penalty morally acceptable, which I do.

I don´t think the "really sure" will be relevant, as I dont think we should put people in prison at all if we are just "really sure".

I dont think it invites disaster either, as the US has had the death penalty for 3 decades now, and only about 1000 have been executed, and I dont think anyone has found it likely that anyone of those might have been innocent. Do you feel that the current situation in the US is a disaster when it comes to the death penalty and how it is applied?

[vhawk01]

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So Bedreviter is right. Its no different than sentencing someone to prison who is innocent. A tragedy, but no one but a few fringe nutjobs are actually calling for the abolition of the prison system for the reason that a small minority of people are wrongfully convicted.

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As long as the innocent person isn't killed in time, you're right. However, you are arguing for killing him, right?

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Yea, ignore what I said at the top of the thread, I was in the middle of some female induced tilt.

The truth is, the appeals system works. It does become a pain though, because so many of these guys know they're guilty, their attorneys know they're guilty, and there is plenty of hard evidence to prove guilt, so they clog up the court system with minor technicalities.

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So if it worked faster....then your points in this thread would be even MORE wrong?

[Bedreviter]

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The principle is exactly the same, and Im pretty sure you know it too.

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Huh? Now I don't even know what we are talking about anymore. I certainly don't think criminal punishment is about revenge, that is a principle most civilized societies left behind hundreds of years ago. Though I'm sure many get their kicks out of believing it is and like it.

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I was talking about the principle that the two sentences was based upon, which you argued were different. If you saw the text that I had written that was under that line that you chose to quote you would see that I had clarified my view on punishment/revenge, so Im quite surprised that you missed it. But Im sure you didn´t ignore it on purpose...

[vhawk01]

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Long answer: Yes, in some cases

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Im not in favor of punishing people on the varying degree of how likely they are to be guilty of a crime. If someone is 30% likely to have killed someone, are we giving him a fine? 50%=House arrest? 75%=5 years? 90%=10 years?

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Neither am I. However, death is final, prison is not. We know that innocent people do get convicted (see previous references).

I'm against the death penalty all together, you're the one who's for it "in some cases". Explain?

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Yes, innocent people have been convicted. But you seem unable to accept the fact that they have been convicted in the first stage of a multi-stage system, and they have later been cleared of their charges when they have gone on to the next stage in the road to the poison-needle. From what Ive read there is little reason to believe that anyone of those that have been executed in the US after the reintroduction of the death penalty has been wrongfully punished.

Im in favor of the death penalty in some cases, as in "the worst cases".

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You mean there are actually people who are in favor of the death penalty who are NOT in favor of shortening the appeals process and making it a more efficient and cost-effective process from beginning to end? I've never met one.

[Bedreviter]

Well hi. Pleased to be the first then.