Smoking Bans and Crimes?

[ItalianFX]

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This is what the course objective states on the syllabus:

"The purpose of this course is to analyze issues related to crime from an economic standpoint. Blah blah blah. The majority of the semester will be spent using these tools to analyze a variety of criminal issues."

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The professor has a cop-out in wording "The majority of the semester". Doesn't say 100% there.

Why does it bother you so much, by the way? Will you be one of those cops that fight the system to make things right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If so, you won't last long [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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No, I just find it pointless that we have to discuss something that isn't a crime. The class is already a waste of my time, IMO, and so doing something that makes it even more of a waste of my time makes it a waste of my time to waste my time. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[CallMeIshmael]

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Why does your "right" to smoke-free air take precedence over a smoker's right to make a choice, however harmful to his health it may be?

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It has nothing to do with the smoker's right to harm himself. It has to do with him infringing on the right of others to not be harmed.


Im 100% against smoking bans on any privately owned property (bars, restaurants, etc), since that's just the government sticking its nose in where it doesnt belong.

But, if Im in a public space (which, unlike above, Im being forced to pay for), you dont have the right to cause me harm (obviously, within reason)

[ItalianFX]

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OK, I get it. This is a misdameanor-type offense or some such.

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No, a misdemeanor is still a crime.

Breaking a law can be a crime (violation, misdemeanor, or felony) or an infraction.

Here in NYC it is not a crime to smoke in a bar or to allow smoking in your bar. It is, however, an infraction of the health code for the bar owner to allow it.

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Learn something new every day. Thanks for clarifying this point for me.

What I was trying to get at was that the title of the class may be misworded and was intended to include more broad law-breaking activities that may not necessarily be subject to criminal law.

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Note I edited my post. A violation is not a crime (at lead according to NY state penal code

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Wiki agrees:

"An Infraction in legal sense (minor offense, minor violation, petty offense, or frequently citation, sometimes used as synonymous with violation, regulatory offense, welfare offense, or contravention) is a "petty" violation of the law less serious than a misdemeanor.

Typically, an infraction is a violation of a rule or local ordinance or regulation.

Some refer to an infraction as quasi-criminal, because conviction for an infraction is generally not associated with the loss of liberty, or even social stigma. Infractions are often considered civil cases, in which case an infraction is not even considered a crime. "

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Great! haha So how do we categorize smoking bans? Infractions/Violations, regulations, laws, crimes? I might just have to call the District Attorney in my town.

[kutuz_off]

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doing something that makes it even more of a waste of my time makes it a waste of my time to waste my time. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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Now that should be a crime! [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[forshure]

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and write a reaction paper.

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seems like your already done with your homework

[mbillie1]

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The only crime is that there are smoking bans anywhere, for any reason. As your president, I will enforce mandatory smoking in the childrens oncology wings of hospitals, in the fresh food areas of grocery stores, and in the faces of soccer moms and their ugly babies. I will also enforce mandatory post-birth abortions of anyone I deem unfit to have been born.

mbillie1 '08

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qft

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FX,

I more or less agree with you about it being a crime - it's not - but it is a mildly interesting topic for the economics inquiry (i.e. whether smoking bans will hurt business in certain establishments, economic impact of litigation around smoking in the workplace, etc). But it doesn't really sound like your class gets too deeply into that kind of thing.

If I was trying to make your argument, I would probably point out that you might as well discuss parking tickets or something.

[ItalianFX]

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FX,

I more or less agree with you about it being a crime - it's not - but it is a mildly interesting topic for the economics inquiry (i.e. whether smoking bans will hurt business in certain establishments, economic impact of litigation around smoking in the workplace, etc). But it doesn't really sound like your class gets too deeply into that kind of thing.

If I was trying to make your argument, I would probably point out that you might as well discuss parking tickets or something.

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When I tried to debate it in class, I told her "I agree that it is an economic issue, but I do not believe it is a crime issue, and therefore, it is not appropriate for this class." I think it would be a great topic to discuss in like a labor economics or consumer behavior type class...whatever. She also came back with the argument, "if you look up crime in a dictionary, it'll state crime is anything that the government says is against the law." That was her reasoning on why she was sticking with it. And she keeps saying, "I'm so interested in hearing what you guys find."

I can't wait until we discuss it a little more and she finds out that all anybody talks about is how it affects businesses/bars/restaurants, etc. and nothing to do with crime.

[ItalianFX]

So, through more searching, I found this for NYC: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in546751.shtml

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The ban covers all workplaces, including bars, small restaurants, bingo parlors and other venues not covered by the city's previous smoking law. Owners of establishments could be fined $400 for allowing smoking and eventually could have their business licenses suspended.

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It's still not a crime, it's a violation.

[Frinkenstein]

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This is what the course objective states on the syllabus:

"The purpose of this course is to analyze issues related to crime from an economic standpoint. Blah blah blah. The majority of the semester will be spent using these tools to analyze a variety of criminal issues."

[/ QUOTE ]

The professor has a cop-out in wording "The majority of the semester". Doesn't say 100% there.

Why does it bother you so much, by the way? Will you be one of those cops that fight the system to make things right? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] If so, you won't last long [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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No, I just find it pointless that we have to discuss something that isn't a crime. The class is already a waste of my time, IMO, and so doing something that makes it even more of a waste of my time makes it a waste of my time to waste my time. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

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I really think you're being super nitty about this issue. Who cares if it's an actual crime or just a violation? Whether or not it's a crime or just a violation doesn't seem that important in the context of your course.

My city currently has a city wide ban on smoking in bars and whatnot. If you were caught lighting up, I think you would get a ticket. As well, if your university decided to implement a smoking ban on campus, you could get ticketed by campus five-oh, or face some sort of disciplinary action.