QQ hand

SGS · #1 02-23-2006, 02:03 AM

CO has good TAG stats, 17/12. Cold caller is bad.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, MP2 calls, 1 fold, CO 3-bets, 3 folds, Hero caps, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.66 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO 3-bets, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (11.33 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

River: (11.33 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, CO calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13.33 BB

Dazarath · #2 02-23-2006, 02:32 AM

This is the kind of hand to which I used to always respond "call". But now looking at it more, I like the fold. That is, assuming you have the CO down as a straight forward player. I've seen the occasional "taggish" player 3-bet TT on a board like that because they just don't want to give it up or something. But barring rare situations like, there's no hand he 3-bets the flop with that you beat. Though, the fact that he didn't bet the turn leads me to believe he might have a PP < J.

Hobbs. · #3 02-23-2006, 02:33 AM

looks like a J for MP2 and AA/KK for CO; good fold.

StellarWind · #4 02-23-2006, 03:04 AM

Call. Forget about the cutoff. He didn't check the turn through with a hand that beats QQ. Or at least you shouldn't play on that assumption because you'll be wrong a whole lot. Quite likely he has the AK/AQ flush draw in diamonds and is calling because of the pot size and your possible weakness. Or he decided to duck the turn checkraise with second pair to protect his chance to spike.

MP2 may certainly have the jack. But don't cry to me because he bluffed you with 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or value bet a pair of fives. Your last three plays were call-check-check. Cutoff took a free card on the turn and basically admitted that his flop 3-bet was a bluff. You've both begged to have this happen to you and your hand will be good the requisite 7% of the time.

SGS · #5 02-23-2006, 03:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
He didn't check the turn through with a hand that beats QQ

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I have seen people do this before with KK or AA where they are fearing the turn checkraise.

[ QUOTE ]
Quite likely he has the AK/AQ flush draw in diamonds and is calling because of the pot size and your possible weakness

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I really doubt he is calling the river with either of these hands. Especially with a possible caller behind him that capped pre-flop and bet the flop.

SGS

Dazarath · #6 02-23-2006, 03:35 AM

Stellar, the CO is what he should be worried about. The main question is trying to figure out if the CO is checking behind AA/KK because he's afraid of the J, or if he's overplaying TT and trying to get to showdown cheap. I've seen both plays.

SGS · #7 02-23-2006, 03:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Stellar, the CO is what he should be worried about. The main question is trying to figure out if the CO is checking behind AA/KK because he's afraid of the J, or if he's overplaying TT and trying to get to showdown cheap. I've seen both plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

dayninja · #8 02-23-2006, 03:51 AM

Based on the flop/turn combo CO seems to not have AA or KK, but more likely 88-TT, although AA/KK is not out of the question. I disagree that AA/KK will not bet this turn sometime. After you don't cap the flop it's pretty obvious that you don't have AA, but either QQ or AK or maybe KK. I think a TAG will bet this turn wtih AA/KK pretty much 100% of the time to charge the flush draw and worse pocket pairs. Odds are very good that you have CO beat. Sure, TAGs have checked behind Aa or KK on scary turns. But in this situation, I don't think any TAG with AA/KK here won't bet this for value against SGS's pretty obvious hand range and against the bad player's huge hand range. Or TAG does check AA here, then IMO he sucks.

What kind of bad player is MP2? If he's like maniac bad, then given the pot size, hand ranges for both CO/MP2, this is an easy overcall IMO. If he's loose very passive bad, then I think you can fold this. But many bad opponents will play this hand the same way MP2 did with a hand like 77, and then value bet the river after the turn gets checked through. Or bad players will raise the flop with any pair "hoping" you have AK, and then after the turn gets checked through, value bet their pair. But at the same time, he could easily have a J, but the pot is pretty big at this point, and CO more likely than not does not KK+... actually I think i'll overcall

SGS · #9 02-23-2006, 04:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Though, the fact that he didn't bet the turn leads me to believe he might have a PP < J.

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I think the fact that he didn't bet the turn makes it look more like he has AA or KK. If he had TT or something I think he would bet the turn as that turn card is actually a good one for him as he was banking on no one being able to beat a J. Now for AA or KK that turn card changes things.

Think about it, say in this hand ur the CO and you have TT, u bet turn and you get check-raised, you are going to lay it down probably. Now switch your cards to AA or KK and we don't want to lay it down. Any sense?

SGS

ihardlyknowher · #10 02-23-2006, 04:31 AM

If you bet the river, you put the CO to this tough overcall decision.