88 in SB, limped around preflop.

[imtav]

9 man $6.50 SNG, all 9 still remain with blinds at 25/50
My stack was about 1100 at the time. I had no good reads and everyone in the pot had me covered (or just about).

4 of the 7 to act in front of me had already limped in and I had 88 in the SB.

My 2 thoughts were either limp behind for set value, or push all-in to try and grab the 275 in the middle after everyone had shown a good amount of weakness by limping. The factor that made me decide to push all-in was the thought that the BB might see 5 limps as passive and try the big all-in steal himself.

What's the best play to make here? Set value limp, all-in steal, or a smaller raise?

[eurythmech]

9 times out of 10 the complete is better, imo

[Kevin8423]

I limp. People love to make hero calls with their garbage, unfortunatley its usually one or two overs which hit 100%.

[dickkemp]

i can think of no worse play than wasting money raising out of small blind with 88. what do you think you accomplish by making this play of raising out of small blind? what are you trying to accomplish? you will end up building a huge pot that will represent 50% of your stack (or more) and will then make it way too enticing to steal when you miss your set and inevitably the K9o just busted you.
also you didnt mention where the limpers came from but what are you going to do when the UTG limper shoves into your raise? you have just committed yourself by raising. also if you are going to raise to fold from this spot then why raise.
im not sure i think the pot is big enough to steal even in the next 50 100 blind level.
bottom line there is no raise in this spot that is +EV.

[eurythmech]

dick, he obviously wants to push, and not make some retarded raise

[sence25]

Yea, in a 6.5 I like a complete too.
I don't hate a push with so much deadmoney tho.

[dickkemp]

then the pot isnt a big enough % of chips in play to justify. i would like to know if you guys would think shoving at 50 100 is enough +EV to justify the play of risking tourney life in a flip.

[AMT]

You're all nits.

[sence25]

[ QUOTE ]
You're all nits.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that it's a 6.50.
If T9s calls a shove, 88 becomes a complete..

[sence25]

6:06:24 PM AMT: completing is obviously fine when they call real loose, but even 88 is close to a value shove
6:06:35 PM sence: yeah i'd do this in a 33 for sure
6:06:43 PM AMT: im never completing TT in a 6.50, probably not 99 either
6:06:49 PM AMT: i mean in this spot
6:06:53 PM sence: but back when i played 6.5s i ran into biiiiiiiig variance by doing those pushes
6:07:05 PM sence: i think i instapush TT, and 99 is close but a push but 88 hum
6:07:08 PM sence: feels like borderline
6:07:10 PM AMT: yeah
6:07:14 PM AMT: if the table is reasonable though
6:07:17 PM AMT: even at a 6.50
6:07:25 PM AMT: like weak/tight
6:07:35 PM sence: yeah, then you might do it
6:07:49 PM AMT: buy oin is relevant tho
6:07:53 PM sence: but mostly you can sneak to high blinds and steal it out then because ppl play very wrong strategy
6:08:00 PM sence: here you will often flip with dead
6:08:06 PM sence: dunno
6:08:15 PM sence: its profitable but prolly not as much as just completing
6:08:22 PM AMT: the problem is that 88 is so close to have sooo many limping handsw dominated
6:08:32 PM AMT: 87, A2-A8, Kx
6:08:33 PM AMT: etc etc
6:08:39 PM AMT: it pains me to watch those hands see a flop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
6:08:48 PM AMT: and also with 1500 i wouldnt
6:08:53 PM AMT: the stack is influential
6:08:54 PM sence: yeah
6:08:54 PM sence: right
6:08:58 PM AMT: hes lost almost 1/3 his stack
6:09:01 PM sence: as i wrote pot is already 25%
6:09:14 PM AMT: the reality is
6:10:05 PM AMT: im completing 77, so this is going to be close to neutral regardless, and will come down to table play/loose feel to limping ranges. the more people can limp A2/87 as opposed to QJ/JT/T9 the more i want to shove
6:10:17 PM AMT: and when youre aroumnd these pp's its all straight value
6:10:26 PM AMT: you dont necessarily love a call but you pretty much always expect to be ahead
6:10:51 PM sence: yeah
6:10:57 PM AMT: did that all make sense?
6:11:10 PM sence: it did, and it's really close for me too
6:11:21 PM sence: well ppl will call your push with 55 at times
6:11:25 PM sence: hum
6:11:28 PM AMT: thats the thing too
6:11:36 PM AMT: the range of limping when examining just pps
6:11:39 PM AMT: is sooo much higher in the lower pps
6:11:41 PM AMT: than the ones above
6:11:41 PM sence: i just hate it when i flip against baaaad players
6:11:45 PM AMT: and they never fold em at this level either
6:11:47 PM AMT: yeah
6:11:49 PM AMT: agreed.
6:11:57 PM AMT: you can paste part of this convo if you want to teach the n00bs
6:12:04 PM AMT: free coaching almost [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
6:12:10 PM AMT: in the thread i mean
6:12:17 PM AMT: cause i didnt contribute too much, i just called everyoen a nit