Lots of flop action, overpair + fd + gutshot

[TheRempel]

Calling when you don't have live outs is a small mistake. Folding when you do is a huge mistake.

[sqwisssssss]

well, my thoughts are if op's hand is up against a better flush and nut straight..........big trouble.

this situation is very very possible.

[sqwisssssss]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling when you don't have live outs is a small mistake. Folding when you do is a huge mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmmmm, you gave me something to ponder for the next few days.

i have many questions and i dont know where to begin.

if op just "smooth called" pre flop and the flop action was the same.........call?

i know the bet sizes wouldnt be the same because the pot is not as big but bb bets pot, next guy raises all in........op call off???????

if the answer is no, then the original scenario of calling off would be based on equity..........equity seems rather thin though vs. the flop action.

jesus, i'm lost. i feel like a stone cold rookie now. years of playing and this situation seems rather spewey to me.

i dont know.

i'm going to read over the hand again and crunch some numbers. this hand even with some live outs instinctively doesnt feel right........but i'd hate to be making a big mistake by not calling.

[TheRempel]

When Wazz's flush/straight draw isn't live he's going to be about 5-10% on the flop getting 4:1 so he's going to lose $100-$200 or so calling the flop.

When he is live he's going to be anywhere from 30-40% which would mean folding would cost close to $500 in equity.

$500>$200 so folding is bad without some huge read.

Make sense now?

Obviously it's going to be a tricky spot on the flop if he just calls the raise. If he calls a flop bet and it gets raised behind him it's a pretty clear fold because his opponents have defined their hands much more.

[wazz]

Results are, quite frankly, incredible. In white if you don't want to see them before replying:

<font color="#ffffff">BB shows AC QC JH KD </font>
<font color="#ffffff">MP3 shows 5S 6S 6C JC
Giving me the best hand, the best draw, and a whopping 62% equity!!!!</font>

[TheRempel]

Lol. I almost added in that last post 'some small percentage of the time he's going to be a huge favorite with an overpair, flush draw and blockers'.

[sqwisssssss]

[ QUOTE ]
When Wazz's flush/straight draw isn't live he's going to be about 5-10% on the flop getting 4:1 so he's going to lose $100-$200 or so calling the flop.

When he is live he's going to be anywhere from 30-40% which would mean folding would cost close to $500 in equity.

$500&gt;$200 so folding is bad without some huge read.

Make sense now?

Obviously it's going to be a tricky spot on the flop if he just calls the raise. If he calls a flop bet and it gets raised behind him it's a pretty clear fold because his opponents have defined their hands much more.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, i just re read the hand.

the numbers are good. getting over 5/1 to make the call against a couple of maniacs.

i was watching the crazy end of monday night football mixed with high stakes poker on GSN and then read wazz's seemingly maniacal hand here with out really reading the numbers. on the surface, the hand seemed crazy........and it was......... but i ignored the numbers.

i'll stick my money in here all day.

by the way rempel, thanks for pointing out about the bb being an aggressive caller. i'll remember that next time i'm in a situation like op's. i too sometimes like to 3 bet frequent raisers if i have position and i feel i'm ahead of their range.........but strictly to isolate. i hate it when someone crashes my parties.

[sqwisssssss]

lol, i just saw the results. did i say this hand seemed crazy?

like my father once told me, "you never been right about anything"

[sqwisssssss]

jesus, did i say 5/1?

4/1!!!!!!!!

warning: please, no one listen to my replies. i'm an idiot.

[thisnamedoesntfi]

That's all great, I'm all for a bit of a gamble against certain players, but I don't understand the action pre flop on the button with a hand too easily dominated. The flop is a total no brainer. The original raiser isn't one of your so called maniac villains.