Is poker a profession?

[pokervintage]

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Wait - you start a thread asking "Is Poker a Profession?", and then answer yourself in the OP.


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Do you have a problem with that? It is a valid way to make a point isn`t it? Is there something offensive to you about this thread?

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Something tells me you've been banned a few times. Just a hunch.

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Are you suggesting that I be banned from this site because of this thread? Is that common practice here? Ban someone for no other reason than comments like yours?

pokervintage

[GittyUP]

a professional is someone who has a mastery of the knowledge in a subject and make s living of of it. I think there are many players who have both.

If you want to argue that you only win by your opponents making mistakes well yes that is true. there is a spectrum from the best to the worst poker players in the world. A better poker player being able to beat anyone below him on the "skill" spectrum.

This can be applied to almost any other profession. Do you think some company owners run it better then their competitors? Could there not be a spectrum of "skilled" business owners who can out profit their competitors? Don't bad business owners eventually go broke because they were outskilled and MAKE MISTAKES?

[pokervintage]

Does anyone know whether the IRS allows an idividual to file as a professional poker player or must one file as a professional gambler?

It would be intersting if so called profesional poker players are forced to file income tax as gamblers. Most winning poker players do not consider themselves gamblers. In fact most look upon gamblers disdainfully.

How about you? Do you admire poker players or find them a distasteful lot only out to scam people out of their money? I`ve read that one of the primary skills of a winning poker player is game selection. Game selection means find a game in which the players are not as good as you. How sad.

pokervintage

[Gonso]

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Are you suggesting that I be banned from this site because of this thread?

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No, I'm suggesting that you have had been banned previously. You've obviously been around longer than your registration date, and you seem to have some issues interacting with people normally.

A quick check on a couple of your other posts reveals you're kind of a troll. Someone posts a hand history, and you call it a waste of time (who the hell are you to say that?). Then there's the Sklansky thread where you seem to have a few issues...

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I`ve read that one of the primary skills of a winning poker player is game selection. Game selection means find a game in which the players are not as good as you. How sad.

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No wonder you're broke.

[pokervintage]

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Quote:
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I`ve read that one of the primary skills of a winning poker player is game selection. Game selection means find a game in which the players are not as good as you. How sad.


No wonder you're broke.

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I`m not broke, never have been and may never ever be. Plus I am probably a better poker player than you are but even if I`m not I don`t see how that changes anything about the primary skill that a winning poker player practices being game selection. Sklansky probably does this better than anyone. Ask him or anyone that knows him personally. By the way I`ve looked over some of your recent stuff here on 2 + 2. You certainly have more troll tendencies than I do. And you don`t seem to know anything about poker. I wonder how you can comment on my poker remarks. I have yet to find one post of yours that has any poker content at all. I`ll look further or maybe you would be kind and save me some time and point me in the right direction. If a poker post of yours exists that is. Whether or not poker is a game of chance or a game of skill certainly has relevance on this forum. I chose to address it in my way. Not your way which is to not address it at all. Oh you were right I had no business telling that fellow to stop wasting time with his post. I apologized to him. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I always try to learn from my mistakes.

pokervintage.

[fraac]

'Professional' also has a historical definition similar to the OP's quote. Lawyers, doctors and the like, not teachers, sportsmen or clergy. Don't muddle your terms.

[bacats32]

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I would consider someone a professional who lives of the income s/he derives from whatever they are doing. Since this is what they do for a living, this is their profession. Poker is a game of skill as many others and should be looked at as a sport. under the same token you can argue that a football player or boxer is not a professional but they are as long as they get paid for doing it.

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I agree with this. To the OP, if poker players aren't consider professionals because of alot of the things you said in posts. Then neither should athletes, or it is sad for those who get the big contract and shop themselves to different teams.

[sebbb]

so... "Winning at poker is possible because your opponents play bad."

Why do win from them? Because they play bad? So that means you are better than them, right? Isn't that because you have developped some kind of skills?

If you say there are bad players, then it must mean there are good players, then. And why are those players good? Maybe because they spent months learning and studying the game. Or are you saying it's just luck and there is no skill involved?

Your logic doesn't make sense.

But the answer to the question doesn't really matter. The term "poker pro" is just a useful way to describe someone who makes a living out of the game.

[AaronBrown]

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Does anyone know whether the IRS allows an idividual to file as a professional poker player or must one file as a professional gambler?

It would be intersting if so called profesional poker players are forced to file income tax as gamblers. Most winning poker players do not consider themselves gamblers. In fact most look upon gamblers disdainfully.

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You can fill in any profession you want on your tax return (possibly subject to your state's obscenity laws). But the IRS applies different rules to gambling than any other source of gains or losses. Only if you claim to be a professional gambler can you transmute gambling gains and losses into business revenue and expenses. For this purpose, the IRS considers poker gains and losses to be gambling.

Therefore, you could claim to be a professional poker player and file a Schedule C deducting your expenses incurred while pursuing your business. As long as you made money, or convinced the IRS you were seriously trying to make money, that's as good a business as any. But your poker losses could not be treated as business expenses, they would have to be taken as itemized deductions subject to the punitive gambling loss rules.

That's the incentive to claim professional gambler status, to treat losses as business expenses. The IRS has been hostile to people who claim to be professional gamblers but also have jobs. It seems to feel there is no such thing as a part-time professional gambler.

While I agree there is an important distinction between poker and gambling, especially negative EV casino gambling, in my experience most poker players, winners as well as losers, also gamble. Winners are more apt to consider the gambling a different activity than the poker.

[Mike Gallo]

Why? Because I am right about most things. And in this case I am absolutely right.

Welcome aboard pokervintage.

You are exactly what we need, someone bold enough to speak his or her mind.

You don't drink the Kool-aid !!

I look forward to more of your posts.