An objective analysis: Why doesn’t small ball work at micro stakes?

[Nuts102]

I have recently made the transition from stt's to cash games so i can clear the sign up bonus on full tilt alot quicker. Basically im s winning tournament player and struggle at cash games i find im only breaking even at 25c/50c tables. I just cant understand why firstly i have to agree i can put players on a hand make a move and they call down and win. Maybe its just frustration i only joined the site 3 days ago so maybe im on a bad run but no matter what i do i cant win. I sit their wait for a hand but its busted almost everytime. My biggest leak is raisin with AK AQ etc and continuation betting and still gettin called.Also im playing draws to aggressively. I have found making moves at this level is just a waste of time.Has anyone got any tips on how to beat the game consistently or should i just go back to grinding at stt's where i know where i am in hands. Just a bit of a rant needed to get of chest.Also how do you sit down for hours play well get your big hand or 2 of them and get outdrawn and still be able to play well maybe im on tilt ahhhhhhhhhhh

[Archon_Wing]

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all im saying is, isnt the best player in the world more apt to play tight if the rest of the table is playing loose? ...

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Good question. But this gets to the heart of the matter. Is it profitable to play TAG or LAG? The answer is neither. A player that does not adapt to the table conditions is a bad player. IMO, it's better to think of LAG/TAG in terms of plays, not players. I mean it's cool and all to label yourself as a 17/15 or a 26/24 player, but it's ultimately meaningless. Mindlessly following these styles is just as bad as only focusing on your own hand.

Another note, that not everyone who plays uNL is necessarily a calling station. There's an entire host of super-nits as well

But we can all agree on something in uNL. KISS- "Keep it simple, stupid!"

[kayfish77]

lol just 6 table. what limits do u play?

[jjb108]

tight is goot. nh.

[AliasMrJones]

I think think you're mistakenly equating "small ball" with "LAG". These are not the same thing. You can play TAG "small ball". Small ball simply means making money by winning a lot of small pots. This can be done at uNL. I agree with you, though, that some of the plays that gp makes, particularly trying to push people off of weak hands, don't work at uNL where many players just won't fold if they hit any piece of the flop.

[noob_sauce]

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If you try to play small ball and put yourself in a bunch of marginal situations where you have to make borderline decisions against erratic opponents

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+ EV is +EV, and i'm taking it whenever its being offered...

[noob_sauce]

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Marshall,

I read the entire OP. I also know where you are coming from, as this is always something I have struggled with when moving up levels, and I think you are taking unneccessary offense with my reply.

This is what you said:[ QUOTE ]
So basically this is what I’m advocating… First, relax; you don’t need to play a lot of pots to win a lot of money. Second, tighten up; stop calling pre-flop raises in marginal situations. Third, stop trying to put a move on a guy you know isn’t going to fold, because most of the time they won’t. And fourth, when you do wake up with a hand, bet the hell out of it.

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This is what I said: [ QUOTE ]
The real lesson here is don't try to do advanced stuff until you are ready for it. If your handreading skills are not good enough to play more hands, then don't play more hands. Play tight and straightforward and you will make good monbies, since the fish are making their own mistakes. Playing lag when you are not ready for it means you start making huge mistakes yourself: this is the problem here.

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We are basically saying the same thing. You are attributing the problem to the games themselves and your opponents, saying that you shouldn't make moves or play lag because many times it doesn't work or is unnecessary to winning play. All I did was add the caveat that many times, lag play at these limits fails because the person implementing it doesn't know what they are doing.

We all lurk high stakes and watch videos of high limit players making sick plays, that part of my post wasn't meant to be an insult directed towards you or anyone else. All I was trying to say is that lag play and big moves can work, but you have to make sure you know why you're doing it and who you are doing it against. Otherwise you will just be spewing. This is true not only for micro-stakes but for poker in general.

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I didn't see smurf "attack your style" at any point... you need to quit being such a sensitive douce OP

[jonyy6788]

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If you try to play small ball and put yourself in a bunch of marginal situations where you have to make borderline decisions against erratic opponents

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+ EV is +EV, and i'm taking it whenever its being offered...

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for most people it's -EV

[Marshall28]

i love getting flamed after spending time trying to write something that might be helpful to some people.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

Marshall,

1) its the internet, who cares? it's going to happen regardless of how awesome your post is (or isn't).

2) the only one flaming you is noob_sauce, and he's flaming you for your overreacting, not the post

3) seriously though, you are way too oversensitive