AA slowplay pf

[Marshall28]

i actually won the hand, thats besides the point though.

[haz31]

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There are 2 easy parts to this.

Firstly cardplayer normally talks about full ring and not 6max which are very different UTG's

Secondly and more importantly

You say that when you 3bet an UTG raiser everyone thinks u have a big hand? If you trully believe this, then the solution is NOT to stop 3betting UTG raises with AA, but rather to exploit this by 3betting much less premium hands against UTG raisers.
This forces them to either play back at you, at which time you go back to a tighter UTG 3 bet range, or they let you run over them.

This is pretty much 6max poker 101

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haz, good points, however I think you may be overlooking something.... the whole fact that the original raiser is UTG gives us the problem that he is for the most part only goign to be raising fairly premium hands ...


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Then why are you worried about him folding when you 3bet him with AA if he is going to have a premium hand. You can't have your cake and eat it.


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if we start 3betting a UTG raiser with much more marginal hands we are going to be putting ourselves in very tough spots against very strong hands.

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You are also in position which makes it alot easier to play postflop with air with him believing you have a very strong hand.

This also protects your hand from setminers as if your willing to 3bet trash and they call everytime getting 8.x to 1 thinking they have implied odds, then they will be throwing away money. As your unlikely to pay off a set with 6 high.
Futhermore 3betting encourages them to 4bet lighter, which is extremtly profitable when you 3bet them with AA and they 4 bet you with like TT/AQ/AJ when they are out of position etc.


Note that I dont really advocate 3betting light from the blinds against an UTG raiser however

[Gelford]

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haz, good points, however I think you may be overlooking something.... the whole fact that the original raiser is UTG gives us the problem that he is for the most part only goign to be raising fairly premium hands ...

if we start 3betting a UTG raiser with much more marginal hands we are going to be putting ourselves in very tough spots against very strong hands.

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Well, for one thing, utg raising range is tight, but it does not consist only of AA and KK, there are AQ, KQ, 88 etc ... so you can raise from the btn with speculative hands just to mix it up. Villian is OOP, so he can't really charge you.


But you do not have to raise everyone at the table to project an image, you can start by raising CO when you have the BTN .... or you can raise BTN from one of the blinds.

Basically just the fact that it is not uncommon for you to threebet is noticed and so you can hide your aces.


At uNL noone notices that you do not threebet utg, they just notice that you 3bet a lot.

At 200NL and higher, you will have to balance your game, but there UTG is not as tight as you might think, as he also has to balance his game and to metagame and shania plays start to appear, but that is nothing to be worried about at uNL.

[Marshall28]

never said i was worried about him folding.

i hear what you are saying, and i agree that in general it is a good 3betting strategy, but u still are avoiding the fact that you are going to be going up against much better hands than average when u do 3bet a utg raiser.... so yeah he may not be getting implied odds, more times than not hes probably not going to need them if hes raising utg and we are 3betting him light ...

[Gelford]

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never said i was worried about him folding.

i hear what you are saying, and i agree that in general it is a good 3betting strategy, but u still are avoiding the fact that you are going to be going up against much better hands than average when u do 3bet a utg raiser.... so yeah he may not be getting implied odds, more times than not hes probably not going to need them if hes raising utg and we are 3betting him light ...

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Yeah .. but as I said, just start 3betting CO and BTN ... no one will notice before 200NL ... and there UTG is not necesarrily that tight [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[fees]

The flop tells you what you need to know, its overwhelmingly like he has KK possibly even AA (I would guess somewhere 90%+ he has KK/AA, no one rr flop with 2 in and then doesnt bet the flop like this) u bet the flop big got called down, time to slow it down... consider folding the river heavily, but just do the math and see how many times you have to be right to make profit

[haz31]

fees:

Why can't SB have AK here, id say that makes up a pretty large portion of his range.
Why is it overwhelmingly likely he has KK when he check calls the flop? Why can't he have QQ/JJ here and be taking one off or AK looking for pot control?
Even thinking about folding the river after the turn goes check check with 1 potsized bet left is beyond terrible.

[mvdgaag]

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There are 2 easy parts to this.

Firstly cardplayer normally talks about full ring and not 6max which are very different UTG's

Secondly and more importantly

You say that when you 3bet an UTG raiser everyone thinks u have a big hand? If you trully believe this, then the solution is NOT to stop 3betting UTG raises with AA, but rather to exploit this by 3betting much less premium hands against UTG raisers.
This forces them to either play back at you, at which time you go back to a tighter UTG 3 bet range, or they let you run over them.

This is pretty much 6max poker 101

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haz, good points, however I think you may be overlooking something.... the whole fact that the original raiser is UTG gives us the problem that he is for the most part only goign to be raising fairly premium hands ...

if we start 3betting a UTG raiser with much more marginal hands we are going to be putting ourselves in very tough spots against very strong hands.

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I think you are mistaken here. If he raises only premium hands UTG you'll have an easyer time reading him. You are in position as well. So you should 3bet hands that will break big ones and are less likely to be domiated by his range, like suited connectors or small pairs. Do not over-use this though. It is part of an overall strategy to conceil your big hands and to deceive your opponents the times you do it, but it's not a standard play.