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  #21  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:51 AM
DougShrapnel DougShrapnel is offline
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Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1)If you say ACists are in favor of slightly coercing some ppl to reduce the coercion of poor kids then nvm my critique.
2)Here is my biggest disagreement with you all, you say that goverment helps corporations etc,etc. Even if that is [censored] up and could be fixed on a goverment, I still prefer the current situation over what I would think would happen on AC, you are just HOPING things will work out they way you say it will, not everyone has the time to go through a lenghty consumer report( a consumer report thay may not even be that accurate and if the consumer report is any good u bet its going to be quite expensive)
3)The point is that I think that issue will almost certainly be a deal-breaker if it doesnt get down to violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here is the solution to #2. No one will ever have to read a Consumer Report on anything. No one has to be competent or spend enough time to make any sort of difficult decision: save one. They only need to spend time choosing a Chooser. Someone that they will then trust to make decisions for them.

If you are saying they are incompetent or dont have the time to even do this then I hope you realize how horrible democracy is.

[/ QUOTE ]Why does that lead to ACism? Or say anything about democracy being bad?
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  #22  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:52 AM
DougShrapnel DougShrapnel is offline
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Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

This is a well thought out OP. Although there are a lot of places that need to be refined. I'm in agreement. Once you understand each point it build on the next. Any one point on it's own really doesn't cut it. But together it's pretty much a slam dunk.
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  #23  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:53 AM
AlexM AlexM is offline
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Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1)If you say ACists are in favor of slightly coercing some ppl to reduce the coercion of poor kids then nvm my critique.
2)Here is my biggest disagreement with you all, you say that goverment helps corporations etc,etc. Even if that is [censored] up and could be fixed on a goverment, I still prefer the current situation over what I would think would happen on AC, you are just HOPING things will work out they way you say it will, not everyone has the time to go through a lenghty consumer report( a consumer report thay may not even be that accurate and if the consumer report is any good u bet its going to be quite expensive)
3)The point is that I think that issue will almost certainly be a deal-breaker if it doesnt get down to violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here is the solution to #2. No one will ever have to read a Consumer Report on anything. No one has to be competent or spend enough time to make any sort of difficult decision: save one. They only need to spend time choosing a Chooser. Someone that they will then trust to make decisions for them.

If you are saying they are incompetent or dont have the time to even do this then I hope you realize how horrible democracy is.

[/ QUOTE ]Why does that lead to ACism? Or say anything about democracy being bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if they can't make a good decision about one person to follow the advice of on consumer products, how in the world are they going to vote?
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  #24  
Old 11-27-2007, 07:57 AM
DougShrapnel DougShrapnel is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,155
Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1)If you say ACists are in favor of slightly coercing some ppl to reduce the coercion of poor kids then nvm my critique.
2)Here is my biggest disagreement with you all, you say that goverment helps corporations etc,etc. Even if that is [censored] up and could be fixed on a goverment, I still prefer the current situation over what I would think would happen on AC, you are just HOPING things will work out they way you say it will, not everyone has the time to go through a lenghty consumer report( a consumer report thay may not even be that accurate and if the consumer report is any good u bet its going to be quite expensive)
3)The point is that I think that issue will almost certainly be a deal-breaker if it doesnt get down to violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here is the solution to #2. No one will ever have to read a Consumer Report on anything. No one has to be competent or spend enough time to make any sort of difficult decision: save one. They only need to spend time choosing a Chooser. Someone that they will then trust to make decisions for them.

If you are saying they are incompetent or dont have the time to even do this then I hope you realize how horrible democracy is.

[/ QUOTE ]Why does that lead to ACism? Or say anything about democracy being bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if they can't make a good decision about one person to follow the advice of on consumer products, how in the world are they going to vote?

[/ QUOTE ]And lead to Acism?
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  #25  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:01 AM
DougShrapnel DougShrapnel is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,155
Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

Let me just add really quick, I am no longer an advocate of democracy. It's time and age is gone. There was a time when it became needed, in order to increase effeciency to elect representatives. This is no longer the case. Anyone can choose to rep himself of ask anyone to represent him. Democracy was fantastic for the era of the recent past.
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  #26  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:15 AM
MidGe MidGe is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Shame on you, Blackwater!
Posts: 3,908
Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
This is a well thought out OP. Although there are a lot of places that need to be refined. I'm in agreement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree entirely, and it prompts me to add a few reasons as to why I am no longer an ACist.

First of all, of course, are the OP reasons, but also, I think that the slogan approach and the very facts that very few ACists would ever accept any criticisms of their theory, made me feel and recognize as a cult.

Secondly. my seduction rested on reading third rate novels, similar in their romantic approach to, and no better in their literary values than, the Louis L'Amour novels available at the airport. I mean, of course, "The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] .

Of course since then, amongst other of the AC leanings I have read a few of the following reading list. I also read some of Rothbard, Hayek (one of my great and lesser known authors, although not specifically his publications that have an AC content, Mises, etc...

Anyway, none of those authors has changed my mind but rather confirmed my earlier made opinion.

Fantasy, lack of empathy and a misunderstanding of the role of economics (people are not an economic commodity!).

That is why I am no longer an ACist.
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  #27  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:42 AM
DougShrapnel DougShrapnel is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,155
Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
First question, do you think the majority of Americans care about poor people?

Second question, if the American government is needed to help poor people why doesnt it eliminate poverty? It has more than enough money.

[/ QUOTE ]It's not the elimination of poverty that is the governments aim, it's the attempt to lessen acts of desperation. And have everyone that benefits form that attempt to pay for, and have a say in how it is accomplished.
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  #28  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:45 AM
DougShrapnel DougShrapnel is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,155
Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If X is listed as the foremost cause of poverty, and X goes away Im assuming that the poster thinks poverty will at least dramaticly decrease without X

[/ QUOTE ]

Government is the primary cause of povery because:

A. They damage the economy, slowing technical, medical, etc. advancement, ensuring that people in the future have worse lifestyles.

B. Governments prevent people from moving out of countries where they're oppressed with immigration laws. (this is probably #1)

C. Government "aid" often makes people reliant on government, so they never develop the skills or motivation they need to become not poor.

[/ QUOTE ]Scarce resources are the primary cause of poverty.
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  #29  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:53 AM
MidGe MidGe is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Shame on you, Blackwater!
Posts: 3,908
Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
Scarce resources are the primary cause of poverty.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's a view. I think that unequal, unbalanced, unfair, distribution and withholding, and waste, of scarce resources are the primary cause of poverty.
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  #30  
Old 11-27-2007, 08:57 AM
AlexM AlexM is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Imaginationland
Posts: 5,200
Default Re: Why Im no longer an ACist

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1)If you say ACists are in favor of slightly coercing some ppl to reduce the coercion of poor kids then nvm my critique.
2)Here is my biggest disagreement with you all, you say that goverment helps corporations etc,etc. Even if that is [censored] up and could be fixed on a goverment, I still prefer the current situation over what I would think would happen on AC, you are just HOPING things will work out they way you say it will, not everyone has the time to go through a lenghty consumer report( a consumer report thay may not even be that accurate and if the consumer report is any good u bet its going to be quite expensive)
3)The point is that I think that issue will almost certainly be a deal-breaker if it doesnt get down to violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, here is the solution to #2. No one will ever have to read a Consumer Report on anything. No one has to be competent or spend enough time to make any sort of difficult decision: save one. They only need to spend time choosing a Chooser. Someone that they will then trust to make decisions for them.

If you are saying they are incompetent or dont have the time to even do this then I hope you realize how horrible democracy is.

[/ QUOTE ]Why does that lead to ACism? Or say anything about democracy being bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if they can't make a good decision about one person to follow the advice of on consumer products, how in the world are they going to vote?

[/ QUOTE ]And lead to Acism?

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about "lead to"? It's part of ACism. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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