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  #31  
Old 03-22-2007, 02:47 AM
AsydRayne AsydRayne is offline
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Default Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 5, Reverse Implied Odds**

[ QUOTE ]
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It's not trying to extract value. It's preventing bluffs. straight out of No Limit Hold'Em theory and practice. I'm trying to prevent a bluff. I expect a busted draw to fold here, not raise. If I get raised or called, I expect to lose, but that's better than checking, and folding to a 1/2 pot bet from a busted draw. Better to lose $20 here, than lose $80 getting bluffed out. I think it's worthwhile in this spot.

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You misunderstood me...or I didn't explain myself well enough. I totally understand the concept of a blocking bet. And this was an excellent place to use it. I am just curious as to what villain had. If he had a busted draw, then he wouldn't have called. That is what I was guessing he had, but the call on the river surprised me. Now I was trying to think, what hand did he have to play in this manner. I just can't see him calling $20 river bet into a $85 pot with many hands. So....???

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Never got answered, but it looks like AA to me as well.
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  #32  
Old 04-29-2007, 05:44 AM
inverted inverted is offline
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Default Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 5, Reverse Implied Odds**

I've just been reading through the posts in the FAQ and other sticked threads in here and SSNL. This is a great topic, but the question of what to do about reverse implied odds never really got answered. As someone said earlier in this thread, "you can't just fold". Is there anywhere else that you can read about reverse implied odds? I wouldn't mind having a read of more information on this topic.
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  #33  
Old 05-14-2007, 04:15 PM
CobraGoat CobraGoat is offline
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Default Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 5, Reverse Implied Odds**

agreed.... seems like we never got anywhere beyond identifying that we find ourselves in these spots more often then we probably would like to admit.

Is it an unavoidable scenario that occurs when trying to make the most correct plays and make your opps make the biggest mistakes?

Personally, I think it comes down to two things (apologies if this is elementary but at least im taking a step to flush this out further):

1. your ability to put villain on a likely range given how he has played the hand.

2. and identifying RIO situations PF and on Flop and taking a line that allows you to make easier decisions when confronted with the RIO threat.

I think one good point that was made earlier ties in with my first point, that being against unknowns err on the side of folding.

On that 789r flop w JJ and we get minR I think we need a strong read of villain to invest much more money in this hand. Against an unknown i think it is better to lean towards a fold on turn when faced with further aggression unless of course a T hits.

Also, this probably goes without saying, but it would seem that we get into RIO situations a lot more often OOP. As a general rule I sort of naturally play hands more passively after the turn OOP and again will more likely lean towards a fold then if i were IP.

I think RIO is a much more "all-encompassing" idea than the other concepts previously discussed. I'm wondering if the size of this idea and countless applications is the reason this topic is the least explained and explored of these threads.
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  #34  
Old 07-09-2007, 08:22 PM
Restlys Restlys is offline
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Default Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 5, Reverse Implied Odds**

Interesting, personally im against making 1/3,1/4 bets because i just do not have this maneuver in my game, so i would think that any time i do this it would just pop a big red light to any watchfull players. OOP, to a really ugly board with an overpair id c/fold , in position id bet a checking villain, probably fold to a OOP bet , people will call with most draws and higher pp will re-raise me, RIO is this for me : a slight edge, so i try not to get money in the pot at all or fold

But keep this in mind: AQ has been the hand i have been losing the most money with - so i prefer folding these high texture boards with TPaverage kickers or overpairs until Im the player with flush/straight draw, AA, KK reraising...
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  #35  
Old 07-25-2007, 02:44 PM
Mercury87 Mercury87 is offline
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Default Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 5, Reverse Implied Odds**

[ QUOTE ]

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $.25/$.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $45.55
UTG+1: $20.87
Hero: $65.50
Button: $15.50
SB: $47.75
BB: $35.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG raises to $2.5, 1 folds, Hero calls $2.5 , 3 folds.

Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($5.50, 2 players)
UTG Bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Here we have the beginnings of a RIO situation. Hero's hand strength is relativily unknown. He called a bet in position with a dominated hand, and saw a flop, and hit. Villain bets and hero just calls.

Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG bets $10, Hero ?

Here is where the real RIO comes in. At this point Hero still has no idea of his relative hand strength, his opponent can still back off on the river if beat, he has little chance of improving and if he does still may be beat, and a call here commits you to the river


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm confused. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Is this really a RIO-situation for Hero? Sure, you don't know the relative value of your hand... But not every situation in which you don't know the relative value of your hand is a RIO-situation.

And after your flop call, is villain in a RIO-situation? He doesn't know wheter you are slowplaying a set or floating.

Also, I don't see why Hero is committed to the river if he calls the turn-bet.

Can somebody explain this to me?
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  #36  
Old 10-12-2007, 07:15 PM
Inf1n1tY Inf1n1tY is offline
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Default Re: **uNL Concept of the week: Week 5, Reverse Implied Odds**

when i have tp or middle pair i 'd most times do a probing bet on flush or straight boards when heads-up.

I think the only way to go throu RIO situations is to avoid them as often as possible. Professional No Limit Hold Em Vol. 1 teaches you the concept of SPR wich is in general a good way to avoid some of these tough situations.
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