Why Im no longer an ACist

[ALawPoker]

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Please explain how the lack of goverment will magicly get rid of poverty.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I don't see this thread going well. Who said it would magically get rid of anything?

Valenzuela, fwiw, based on your arguments here I don't think you ever really "were" an ACist. I thought your objections here were going to be very semantical, but really (as natedogg said) it's just an argument against the general principles of laissez faire policy. That's fine if you want to have that discussion though. I just don't see how you ever were an ACist if these are your disagreements.

[valenzuela]

1)If you say ACists are in favor of slightly coercing some ppl to reduce the coercion of poor kids then nvm my critique.
2)Here is my biggest disagreement with you all, you say that goverment helps corporations etc,etc. Even if that is [censored] up and could be fixed on a goverment, I still prefer the current situation over what I would think would happen on AC, you are just HOPING things will work out they way you say it will, not everyone has the time to go through a lenghty consumer report( a consumer report thay may not even be that accurate and if the consumer report is any good u bet its going to be quite expensive)
3)The point is that I think that issue will almost certainly be a deal-breaker if it doesnt get down to violence.

[valenzuela]

If X is listed as the foremost cause of poverty, and X goes away Im assuming that the poster thinks poverty will at least dramaticly decrease without X

[ianlippert]

First question, do you think the majority of Americans care about poor people?

Second question, if the American government is needed to help poor people why doesnt it eliminate poverty? It has more than enough money.

[ALawPoker]

OK, "dramatically decrease" is different than "magically get rid of."

[AlexM]

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1)If you say ACists are in favor of slightly coercing some ppl to reduce the coercion of poor kids then nvm my critique.

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Calling it "in favor of" is way too strong. Maybe "don't care so much about". We would definitely rather get the government out and we definitely think that things would be handled better without the government and things would improve. My point was that you calling ACists "uncaring" about this is just plain false.

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not everyone has the time to go through a lenghty consumer report

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No, they don't. I was merely pointing out an organization that does this, not that it would be exactly like that. Most likely things would get to a point where products would advertise as "Consumer Reports approved"! And put that kind of thing on their label, etc. You don't need details if you don't want them, just an organization you trust to say "yes, this is a good product". Currently people trust the government for that even though the government has a horrible track record and also fails to work for everyone beause everyone has different standards. The thing is that you wouldn't have to research every item, you'd just have to research the organizations approving items. Even that's an exaggeration as it's really a matter of just having enough people researching these groups and paying enough attention that the companies want to make sure they're getting these people's money.

Anyway, even if you're skeptical that this would work, it's not like it would just happen over night. Personally, if we do get AC "somewhere" it would be a test situation and not the entire world at once, so even if it fails, it's not like the whole world is going to go into chaos, so what have we really got to lose? Everyone who's anti AC makes out like "OMG, when this element of AC fails the world is going to explode!!!!" when these things would be tested in much more controlled environments before being adopted by people as a whole.


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3)The point is that I think that issue will almost certainly be a deal-breaker if it doesnt get down to violence.

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There are certainly valid arguments for why anarchy might be technically impossible due to the property thing, but even if there end up being ultra minarchist countries that exist solely for the purpose of regulating property rights, it's basically the same thing.

[AlexM]

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If X is listed as the foremost cause of poverty, and X goes away Im assuming that the poster thinks poverty will at least dramaticly decrease without X

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Government is the primary cause of povery because:

A. They damage the economy, slowing technical, medical, etc. advancement, ensuring that people in the future have worse lifestyles.

B. Governments prevent people from moving out of countries where they're oppressed with immigration laws. (this is probably #1)

C. Government "aid" often makes people reliant on government, so they never develop the skills or motivation they need to become not poor.

[vhawk01]

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1)If you say ACists are in favor of slightly coercing some ppl to reduce the coercion of poor kids then nvm my critique.
2)Here is my biggest disagreement with you all, you say that goverment helps corporations etc,etc. Even if that is [censored] up and could be fixed on a goverment, I still prefer the current situation over what I would think would happen on AC, you are just HOPING things will work out they way you say it will, not everyone has the time to go through a lenghty consumer report( a consumer report thay may not even be that accurate and if the consumer report is any good u bet its going to be quite expensive)
3)The point is that I think that issue will almost certainly be a deal-breaker if it doesnt get down to violence.

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Well, here is the solution to #2. No one will ever have to read a Consumer Report on anything. No one has to be competent or spend enough time to make any sort of difficult decision: save one. They only need to spend time choosing a Chooser. Someone that they will then trust to make decisions for them.

If you are saying they are incompetent or dont have the time to even do this then I hope you realize how horrible democracy is.

[ConstantineX]

VHawk,

Are you an ACist? I don't seem to remember that.

[tomdemaine]

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VHawk,

Are you an ACist? I don't seem to remember that.

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Resistance is futile.