QQ 3ways vs. short shove & player behind; 50NL

GiantBuddha · #1 11-14-2007, 08:13 PM

No reads. Obviously I want to get it in vs. Shorty, but what's SB's range here, given he's unknown? Short stack actually didn't shove, he's got $.35 behind, so I can reraise and so can SB.

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($18.75)
Button ($51.80)
SB ($63.85)
BB ($43.15)
UTG ($8.85)
UTG+1 ($50.30)
MP1 ($47.05)
MP2 ($9.50)
Hero ($49.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $1.5, 3 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, SB calls $4.75, 1 fold, UTG raises to $8.5, Hero...

Brimstead · #2 11-14-2007, 08:32 PM

i happen to have seen a number of these type of overcalls today... invariably they were TT-QQ and AK. Saying that tho, i have seen one or two tricky players in the past do this w/ AA and KK. I would still lean towards JJ and AK tho.

if you just call then sb is probably calling..
...you can shove....
... but if you are unsure then i think this is one of the extremely rare occasions where i might minraise... if SB has TT, JJ, or AK he's probably putting it down (assuming he's not a "spewtard") and AA or KK would probably move in, so you can still fold.

jlp_2908 · #3 11-15-2007, 02:19 AM

I 4-bet even with JJ(I have made QQ fold to this play by bein so aggressive) so you have some fold equity for his dead money.
4-bet here and if he calls bet flop...Im certain this is the most +ev play but its small. I've been tracking these types of hands all month and posted a couple. When there is alot of money in the pot you have to be more aggressive with your big hands.

To be honest I put him on 1010 or JJ as already mentioned and maybe AK

GiantBuddha · #4 11-15-2007, 02:31 AM

PokerStars Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($18.75)
Button ($51.80)
SB ($63.85)
BB ($43.15)
UTG ($8.85)
UTG+1 ($50.30)
MP1 ($47.05)
MP2 ($9.50)
Hero ($49.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $1.5, 3 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, SB calls $4.75, 1 fold, UTG raises to $8.5, Hero raises to $16, SB calls $11, UTG calls $0.35 (All-In).

Flop: ($41.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero bets $33.75 (All-In), SB folds.

Turn: ($41.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($41.35) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $7.60

Results in white below:
UTG has 3c 3s (full house, sevens full of threes).
Hero has Qd Qs (full house, sevens full of queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $75.10.

GiantBuddha · #5 11-15-2007, 02:32 AM

I was a little worried when he called my 5-bet. I guess he had AK.

jlp_2908 · #6 11-15-2007, 02:33 AM

NH I had a feeling thats how it would go down well played

GiantBuddha · #7 11-15-2007, 02:49 AM

ty. when you posted basically exactly what happened, I figured it was time for results. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Nicechase · #8 11-15-2007, 03:48 AM

I'm glad I found this thread before I posted my question. This has answered my some of my question, but I do have another situation that I'd like answered if ya'll have time. Below is what would have been my post if I hadn't found this thread.

[ QUOTE ]
Let me preface this by saying that I normally play very tight ABC, multi-tabling FR 5NL at around 12/8, although I've switched to playing even tighter so I can play more tables which is helping me build my roll faster, so I'm probably around 9/6 right now. Ubernit by Gelford, basically.

In the following situations with an unknown, which hands do you call with? Obviously AA and KK, but what about AK, AQ, QQ, JJ?

1) The villain is open shoving at least once an orbit, the only hands you've seen showndown include an Ace or King, but the second card is usually a rag; not necessarily even suited. Occasionally he'll show up with a pair. He's been lucky with a 50/50 win rate. There's one fullstack who calls in front of you and then action folds around to you. You are fullstacked. Second situation is a little more complex.

2) First hand at the table, you (MP)raise QQ to 5x with one limper(UTG). You get 4 calls and a shove from the BB which is instantly called by the limper in front of you. The effective stack so far is only 50BB because the shover and the limper are both retarded; the players behind are all playing fullstacked, though. As I see it, you only have two options here, shove or fold, but with 4 players left to act can a shove be +EV when they've already called 5xBB with all that dead money in the pot?

I get into the second situation a lot with QQ at 5NL for some reason and I generally end up folding, but I'm not sure if that's beyond nitty and just playing scared. QQ is not much of a winner for me (1/12th AA, 1/2 of JJ) because of the raise-folds I'm doing when I get shoved into.

I appreciate the help.

[/ QUOTE ]

GiantBuddha · #9 11-15-2007, 02:09 PM

1) Depends on my read on the non-maniac. If he's not a nit and appears to be adjusting, I call/shove with AK, AA-TT. You can afford to be a slight dog to the caller's range as long as you're a favorite against the maniac's range since you're getting 2 to 1.

2) Villain dependant. I don't really care about the 4 callers behind me. If I think the two half stacks are loose and bad with big bets, shove.