Street by street vs TerrorOfSweden, EPT Barcelona (Hand w/ masters?) - Page 14

Mr.WeakTight · #**131** 10-05-2007, 04:29 AM

No, i wasn't leveling; but I was thinking about this more after I posted and I decided I had a bad case of MUTBS.

I think it's oops b/c he puts us on AJ+, he has a king. he knows he's behind. and if he does have a monster then betting means only better hands will call. so check/call. value bet diamond rivers.

registrar · #**132** 10-05-2007, 04:57 AM

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easy c/c now

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This was my first thought. Presumably, we're calling off the rest of our chips on the river ui?

The problem we have is when we river the nuts. How do we get our stack in then?

ASPoker8 · #**133** 10-05-2007, 05:02 AM

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easy c/c now

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This was my first thought. Presumably, we're calling off the rest of our chips on the river ui?

The problem we have is when we river the nuts. How do we get our stack in then?

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I don't see how rivering the nuts is a problem [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

but bet

registrar · #**134** 10-05-2007, 05:12 AM

We raise/call pf, bet the two flush K-high flop and check-call (presumably) the A-high turn and we're a random and we'll have more or less PSB on the river. OK, it's not the world's worst problem, but I'm just trying to figure out whether check-raising turn might not be better - on the understanding that we're stacking off if he has an ace or better anyway and on the understanding that most cards that will stop him shoving the river and perhaps calling a bet/shove actually improve our hand. However, I'm hungover and have a very tedious meeting to attend now and can't really think this through so I'm just throwing this is in.

durrrr · #**135** 10-05-2007, 05:45 AM

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To everyone saying lead, or if you say check raise and he calls:

Turn is an offsuit Ace. Plan?

Turn is a low diamond. Plan?

Turn is a king. Plan?

Turn is a blank. Plan?

Turn is a T J or Q. Plan?

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bet/call, but then again i have a lot better info on villain than probably everyone else in the thread combined so its pretty unfair.

registrar · #**136** 10-05-2007, 06:16 AM

Yeah, I don't have any info on villain but I also kind of like the bet-call line on the turn. Betting small as if you're blocking, like a muppet, into the scare card.

I just think there must be some better way of getting the money in agaisnt worse hands than check-calling down.

Mr.WeakTight · #**137** 10-05-2007, 06:29 AM

you mean I accidentally had the right answer for the wrong reason in the first place? (weak lead - 1400).

Bond18 · #**138** 10-05-2007, 06:31 AM

I think i check call turn, because if you bet as an unknown i don't think he normally puts any more money in behind.

On river i c/c a non diamond. If it does come diamond, i have no idea how to get more.

registrar · #**139** 10-05-2007, 06:45 AM

Is there a right answer?

What's the aim in the hand? If villain wants to get all of chips in with a better hand, it's going to be hard not to oblige him as things stand. Maybe, I'm wrong. Maybe Ansky can stare into his soul and make a an heroic fold on 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] river after check-calling 3k on the turn. But basically given his image and our entire line, we're stacking off if he has a better hand.

The question is how to get him to put significantly more money in with a worse hand. I think, given our likely image, he's not going to three-barrel us with worse than AJ after we bet-call pf, bet flop and check-cal turn. I might be wrong, but Christ, if he is that laggy, we don't really need to think that much about how to play because he's going to make a move on our whole stack whatever we do.

So, having given him the chance to make a move on the flop, which he has wisely declined, we now have to think about the best way to make him make a move on this turn. Checking is good, because he will often bet and will sometimes follow that up on the river with a shove but, being OOP, I don't want to rely on him to call when I suddenly come out betting a flush river or when the river is a blank and he realises that I'm probably not folding to a shove.

In my experience, weak turn leads almost always get punished by lags so I think leading is fine. From what Durr says, any lead might get punished, so that's fine too.

I don't particularly like check-raising the turn as an idea, because it makes it very difficult for him to put his chips in, but I still feel it might be better than check-calling.

I think, in conclusion and sorry to have waffled, leading the turn is the way ahead. How weak depends on how we judge he will react. Personally, I'd look at my stack, not at his, and then toss 2k as confidently as possible into the middle.

Number36 · #**140** 10-05-2007, 08:21 AM

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I have missed a lot of the action so it's kind of hard to tell, but I would guess his cbet freq in this spot is pretty close to 100%.

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In that case I don't see why you wouldn't CR the flop. You make an extra $1500 or so when he's got nothing and fold out mid pairs or weak kings that are calling your flop lead. If he has a big hand you're in the same net position as if you b3b.

You seem to be basing your entire line on ther assumption that he bluff raises your flop lead. He's not a retard, tight UTG raise, calls his re-raise and leads a K high flop - seems a stretch that he's alway raise / folding with air there.