A must read post about "bad" poker books.

[deacsoft]

Alright, this is going to come off a little harsh so I apologize in advance. I’m not looking to offend anyone or make any personal attacks, but enough is enough. I see this happening all the time in this forum and it makes me sick. I’ve been campaigning this point for quite some time but many of you are just not getting the point. So let me get to the point.

I’m continually seeing posts stating that people should “unlearn”, “throw out”, “never read”, “burn”, “use as toilet paper”, and etc, etc when responding to the value of different poker books. These statements are about as ignorant as still believing the world is flat. These books are not worthless. Sure they vary in value and they differ in advice. Few will contain advice that is accurate from cover to cover. Most will contain information that is flawed in one way or another. Others yet will contain little to no information that is correct. This does not make them worthless. Anyone claiming otherwise is absolutely wrong.

These books offer a ton of information and can aid poker players in many facets of the game. Most people who read this flawed information just know that it is not what was recommended or widely considered to be correct advice. They fail to understand why this information is flawed. Understanding why it is flawed can teach someone just as much as why other information is correct. In addition, understanding why information is flawed can help you understand how to exploit opponents who are using incorrect information. Not everyone is going to play the same way as you do. Poker books, both good and bad, are flying off shelves all over the world. People are going to read these books containing flawed information and they’re going to bring that style to the table. You must have an understanding of why their playing incorrectly. If you’re not taking the opportunity to exploit these weaknesses you’re not playing poker as well as you could be. Essentially we make money as players not only because of our superior skill but because of the mistakes of others.

Of course there are those who are reading through a just purchased book and have no idea how to tell good information from bad information. They lack the experience and knowledge to differentiate between the information. That is where this forum can shine. Instead of saying “its crap” explain why. Tell the OP what information is wrong and why. If a book is offering weak/tight information tell the OP how to correct it. A sound explanation as to why it’s incorrect to play a certain situation a published why will go an infinite amount further than simply saying “throw it out”. In short, by posting garbage like “burn it” you’re not doing anything to help the learning environment. Therefore, it’s not needed here.

[mowz]

QFT, minus the long quote.

[RowdyZ]

Read John Patricks Casino Poker and find any redeeming quailities for it. He makes Ken Warren look like a poker genius.

RZ

[Cactus Jack]

How many people out there who say this have a plus score on reading comprehension? Face it, most don't understand half of what they read about poker, even if most is aimed at the lowest levels.

CJ

[binions]

As someone who learned to play holdem reading Ken Warren and didn't stumble onto 2+2 books and forums until nearly a year later, "yes" and "no."

Yes, I would have wanted someone to tell me why Warren is wrong. No, I don't think it is unreasonable to say "burn it."

GSIH and SSHE weren't available back then. If they were, I would have saved thousands of dollars.

As it was, spending $10 on Ken Warren's Winner's Guide to Texas Holdem cost me thousands.

[RowdyZ]

[ QUOTE ]
How many people out there who say this have a plus score on reading comprehension? Face it, most don't understand half of what they read about poker, even if most is aimed at the lowest levels.

CJ

[/ QUOTE ]

My reading comprehension is just fine thank you. Have you read the book in question? Do so before commenting on my intelligence about not understanding his book. It is hands down the worst poker book I have ever read and my poker library has over 30 books in it.

RZ


RZ

[DrPhysic]

I agree deacsoft, however there is another factor that you omitted.

In many cases, the comments about books and the value of reviews of books on this forum do not take into account the perspective from which the book is written and the intended audience.

As an example, Aces on the River is written from the perspective of a top championship player, and the information in it certainly would be useful to someone playing at that level or a level close to it. The concepts presented in that book would not be much use to somebody playing $22 SNGs.

Likewise Holdem Poker for the Advanced Player is clearly intended for people playing at middle limits in the $30/60 range. Both the reader and the reviewer need to distinguish what parts of it are applicable for somebody playing $.50/1.

GSIH clearly is written for the beginner and while everything in it remains correct, it is not necessarily all valid for an excellent player playing at $100/200.

Now, I am not making excuses for bad poker books. Siberstang and Warren are what they are. Some of the books that consistently get good/bad reviews on the forum have, as you indicate, some value even if not everything in them is absolutely correct. But one must also look at for whom they are written and in that perspective whether the information is correct or not.

For the person offering a review on this forum to explain what information is wrong and why as you suggest, I would suggest also an indication of who the book is intended for, and to whom it would be useful.

Doc [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[deacsoft]

I'm with you on that 100%.

[*TT*]

Interesting timing on your post Decasoft, I was going to make a post to say/ask something similar this morning. I plan on reading a book that I believe will provide very bad advice just to better understand the thought process of the average opponent. The "No Fold'em" series of books seem ideal for this, now that they have been re-released. I'm going to pick it up today (its on sale at Hollywood Park, ironic isn't it?).

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[jimitilt]

I've seen similar posts from Barron...what "specifically" in the Ken Warren book caused you to lose thousands? I haven't read any of Warrens books so it would be useful to know how it is flawed.