Help a compulsive bluffer - getting aggro with air costing me my roll

automaton_22 · #1 08-14-2007, 07:50 PM

My biggest leak in online poker is detecting some kind of 'read' that isn't actually there, and bluffing my whole stack into an opponent with air [often across a couple of streets].
I feel it is key factor that is keeping me from being just above break even. I will carefully build my roll, then donk it away on bets that I can hardly believe I made when I review the hand.

The frustrating thing about this is I know it is a big leak, but I don't seem to have the mental control to stop myself doing it.

I play NL25, and am well aware that almost never bluffing at these stakes is a good approach.

Any ideas about how to stop the adrenaline going to my head while multi-tabling and making these expensive bluffs?

ufknpissmeoff · #2 08-14-2007, 07:57 PM

You are the type of person I love to play. I am guessing you do this alot with busted draws? I try to induce bluffs whenever I feel the other person missed and I would get no value in betting as they would just fold. It is really pretty easy at this level to know when to/not to bluff. Just figure out what they could possibly have played this way (of course some people you will just never have any idea) and determine whether they are CAPABLE of folding. That's the main thing. There are many calling stations at this level, don't waste your time and effort bluffing them. You should obviously stop the bluff if you get raised, regardless of what you may see on TV. If all else fails, just cut back on bluffing, maybe even cut it out completely. Good Luck, but keep in mind that every successful player needs to be able to pull off bluffs every now and then.

automaton_22 · #3 08-14-2007, 08:02 PM

Thanks for your reply.
Yeah I think a way forward is to simply never bluff for a few weeks to break the cylcle, and then gradually incorporate smart measured bluffing into my game.

I do not consider c-betting or 3 betting light pre-flop to be bluffing, more an aspect of basic strategy.

These expensive bluffs often start with a c-bet getting called on the flop by a player with high vpip, which leads me to second barrel unsuccessfully on the turn, ending up with most of my stack in.

Cooling it on the second barrells will help me too.

So I will
1. Never bluff generally
2. Particularly: never second barrel without at least a strong draw.

chesspain · #4 08-14-2007, 08:14 PM

Maybe you should try limit instead?

automaton_22 · #5 08-14-2007, 08:33 PM

Not sure if this is a joke? I guess limit would be safer, but I love NL holdem, and would rather just learn not to bluff than play a game I find boring.

the machine · #6 08-14-2007, 11:27 PM

there is seriously no need to 3 ball light at 25NL. the players are too leaky for the need to ever incorporate this in you game at those stakes imo.

automaton_22 · #7 08-15-2007, 01:29 AM

Bump.

Help the bluff-a-holic!

Praxising · #8 08-15-2007, 02:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My biggest leak in online poker is detecting some kind of 'read' that isn't actually there, and bluffing my whole stack into an opponent with air [often across a couple of streets]....

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds just like me. This is what I think about myself, maybe it'll strike a chord with you.

I do some successful bluffing. But I do it after I have established a rep at a table, when some guy just can't believe I made that hand and calls, and watches a few more people call, and I have the goods. Then I can bluff an occaisional hand that never got there and they fold. But only a few, interspersed with a lot of early folding cheap hands. So, it's all a scam, a part played upon a stage and all that jazz.....

Until overconfidence hits or just a run of bad cards, or a few new players hit the table who haven't played with me, or I move to at a new table. I have either lost, or not yet established, the role of "TAG player with horse shoe in hand" I work so hard for when the occaisional bluff DID work. But I'd keep bluffing, now it wouldn't work, and the more it didn't work, the more I'd bluff! Oi, what a dope!

So, it works when I'm winning, and it doesn't when I try to save a session by bluffing. My personal solution was to just realize what this pattern is and keep re-evaluating what my image is and where I am at a table. One bad bluff now, and I just take it out of my toolbox for that session. And I never bluff unless I have patiently established my winning persona.

(I also watched several sessions of Phil Ivey cash games. The guy folds after the flop A LOT. Made it easier for me to fold and stop chasing maginal hands as much. Then I didn't feel like I had to bluff when I busted.)

AJackson · #9 08-15-2007, 03:01 AM

Firing the second barrel should only happen when the board changes and it should be only done against someone who can fold. For example an ace on the turn is a decent spot to fire again, but you have to pick the right opponents. THis is where PT/PAhud becomes invaluable. Someone's Fold Turn number can push the decision either way.

Bottom line, though, is that you shouldn't be firing multiple barrels at NL25. Play position hard, cbet, and take the free ride to the river. You'll catch many more hands and be able to pick off river bets and make way more money than you would forcing your opponent to fold through bluffing.

revots33 · #10 08-15-2007, 12:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I play NL25, and am well aware that almost never bluffing at these stakes is a good approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

You solved your own problem. Not much else to do except follow your own advice.

Almost all bluffs at the NL25 level should be small ones to pick up orphan pots. Big multistreet bluffs don't work against low limit calling stations.