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#71
04-30-2007, 03:28 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
Whether poker or horse handicapping or sports betting are games of skill or not, I really don't see that as the point.
The point is that these crusading, self-important, do-gooder politicians need to get out of our faces and stop telling us what we can or can't do in the privacy of our homes. 
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#72
04-30-2007, 03:33 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
[ QUOTE ]
Whether poker or horse handicapping or sports betting are games of skill or not, I really don't see that as the point. The point is that these crusading, self-important, do-gooder politicians need to get out of our faces and stop telling us what we can or can't do in the privacy of our homes. [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely right. But since the public doesn't know their rights, doesn't seem to care or wants big nanny government to blame it for their ills, the poker=skill argument is a good second defense against UIGEA.
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#73
04-30-2007, 03:34 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
Like smoke crack in the privacy of your own home, flafishy?
Look, that was devil's advocate above, I actually agree you ought to be able to smoke crack in the privacy of your own home if you are stupid enpough to want to (not meaning you personally flafishy). But that libertarian argument is a long way from having any real political clout in this country. For now we have to show that the activity isnt really that dangerous before the masses will agree that you should be left alone and not prosecuted for doing it. And part of making that argument involves showing poker is a game of skill. Skallagrim
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#74
04-30-2007, 03:36 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Whether poker or horse handicapping or sports betting are games of skill or not, I really don't see that as the point. The point is that these crusading, self-important, do-gooder politicians need to get out of our faces and stop telling us what we can or can't do in the privacy of our homes. [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely right. But since the public doesn't know their rights, doesn't seem to care or wants big nanny government to blame it for their ills, the poker=skill argument is a good second defense against UIGEA. [/ QUOTE ] It doesn't help the sports bettors.
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#75
04-30-2007, 03:42 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
[ QUOTE ]
Like smoke crack in the privacy of your own home, flafishy? Look, that was devil's advocate above, I actually agree you ought to be able to smoke crack in the privacy of your own home if you are stupid enpough to want to (not meaning you personally flafishy). But that libertarian argument is a long way from having any real political clout in this country. For now we have to show that the activity isnt really that dangerous before the masses will agree that you should be left alone and not prosecuted for doing it. And part of making that argument involves showing poker is a game of skill. Skallagrim [/ QUOTE ] Sorry, Skallagrim, but I really don't see the skill argument having any political weight, either. What could anyone possibly say to these people that would make them understand that? I really think the PPA and all the other luck-vs.-skill folks are wasting a lot of time and money taking this approach.
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#76
04-30-2007, 03:57 PM
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Re: Another Idea Regarding Showing Poker Is Mainly \"Skill\"
Look, I am a decent SNG player. I would say the weakest part of my game is that I play too tight at all times and therefore the heads up part of my game could definitely use some work.
If I was scheduled to play against Men "The Master" Nguyen in a best of 21 heads up NL Hold'em series, and you had to bet (even money), who would you bet on? Do you think you could find a winning bet there? I know, if I was on the side, I could. Poker is mainly skill. The end. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#77
04-30-2007, 04:06 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
Let me put it this way flafishy:
Where is the move to stop people from betting money on their golf game, or their tennis game, or a game of chess? The masses see these contests as contests of skill and impliedly understand that it is silly to play them for money if you are not one of the skilled. So betting on these games does not seem scary to them. They realize that these games are different from slots where every poor fool is encouraged to take their chance and many do to their detriment. If the masses were to see poker as more like golf than slots they would have just as little concern about the fact that we play it for money. IMHO this argument has a lot more chance of succeeeding in my lifetime than convincing the masses that governemnt should not be inovlved in your private life ... government is all over everyone's private life all the f---ing time and I have yet to see massive demonstrations against this unless the activity in question is seen as not harmful (like gay rights). I have over the years been active in the drug law reform movement...the only time that movement achieved anything was when a handful of states realized marijuana was not that harmful and decriminalized. And thats been after almost 30 years of effort. You have to argue what works: "poker is skill like golf" will work faster than "poker is none of the state's business." I wish it were not so, but it is. Skallagrim
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#78
04-30-2007, 04:41 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
[ QUOTE ]
Let me put it this way flafishy: Where is the move to stop people from betting money on their golf game, or their tennis game, or a game of chess? The masses see these contests as contests of skill and impliedly understand that it is silly to play them for money if you are not one of the skilled. So betting on these games does not seem scary to them. They realize that these games are different from slots where every poor fool is encouraged to take their chance and many do to their detriment. If the masses were to see poker as more like golf than slots they would have just as little concern about the fact that we play it for money. IMHO this argument has a lot more chance of succeeeding in my lifetime than convincing the masses that governemnt should not be inovlved in your private life ... government is all over everyone's private life all the f---ing time and I have yet to see massive demonstrations against this unless the activity in question is seen as not harmful (like gay rights). I have over the years been active in the drug law reform movement...the only time that movement achieved anything was when a handful of states realized marijuana was not that harmful and decriminalized. And thats been after almost 30 years of effort. You have to argue what works: "poker is skill like golf" will work faster than "poker is none of the state's business." I wish it were not so, but it is. Skallagrim [/ QUOTE ] Never ever will you convince these people that poker=golf and not poker=slot machines, and that is my point. You won't get there any quicker than you did with drug-law reform. I think what has to be done is to disprove that poker=crack, and no one seems to want to do that.
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#79
04-30-2007, 05:08 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
Your last sentence, flafishy, is precisely what I am trying to prove (that poker does not equal crack). What dont you get?
PS - I have convinced a lot of folks that poker is different, a game of skill unlike the other casino games. Dont underestimate the powers of persuasion, especially with poker becoming a popular "sport" for watching on TV,
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#80
04-30-2007, 05:51 PM
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Re: \"something that\'s already universally accepted \" ????
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Whether poker or horse handicapping or sports betting are games of skill or not, I really don't see that as the point. The point is that these crusading, self-important, do-gooder politicians need to get out of our faces and stop telling us what we can or can't do in the privacy of our homes. [/ QUOTE ] Absolutely right. But since the public doesn't know their rights, doesn't seem to care or wants big nanny government to blame it for their ills, the poker=skill argument is a good second defense against UIGEA. [/ QUOTE ] It doesn't help the sports bettors. [/ QUOTE ] How does it not? Sports betting is clearly a game of skill. It's like poker without antes/blinds. If there are 50 college basketball games on a Saturday, even if 49 don't offer a +EV line and 1 does, a skilled handicapper can profit. Just as in poker, most people lose, but it is a game of skill and can be beaten. BTW, I'm confident that a much larger percentage of poker players are long-term winners and I've seen that used as an argument against sports betting being included in a "carveout". That is silly because you can't say that a game is skill-based if 10% of players are LTW's and not if only 5% are (not the real numbers, just an example).
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