I never know how to handle these

[cjs]

stars 2/4

PokerStars 2/4 Omaha/8 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, UTG calls $6 (All-In), MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 18 BB

Call, raise or fold river?

[Shabamabam]

Fold pf.

Call river and expect to get 3/4ed.

[Misja]

Call the river. You will be quartered so a raise earns you nothing.

[RobNottsUk]

Raise, if it's a loose table.

The hand looks like typical loose-passive table to me.
Loose passive players often delay their raises with the Nuts 1 card. They fear the flush, and they'll draw to non-nut Lo's.

The reasoning that this field is loose players pre-flop, and play A4 in bad spots, but then you cannot give so much credence to turn calls and river calls for 1 bet, where the pot has got large.

If they're tight players, then you can give credence to the calls, but then you're saying they been dealt A45x, 2345 etc.

SB may have 45, A58, A5K6 etc etc as well as A54 which you fear, and other hands to.
The BB should have the nut str8, if has then raising the SB is a great play with any kind of a Lo.
The short-stack overcaller and the mid-pos overcaller, can be making crying calls.

When you get quartered, with your raise called by only 2 players or 4 bet, and called,you loose fractions of bets, especially as someone has to have precisely A54x to have a lock.

When you take 1/2 the pot, you win at least a bet raising.

You've got a better than usual chance of the MP overcaller, calling the final bet to, due to the large pot size.

[cjs]

Preflop call is a little loose but with that many already in and the button I thought it was ok. I would normally fold pre if not for those reasons.

How many lows do there have to be for a raise to be bad play? I think we can assume at least one nut straight so we are only playing for half.

[Grandma_DOG]

Raise river, you're near end of action, so you won't risk losing overcalls. You have 5 in pot, 1 is All in, so you still have 4; thus you're +EV. You will split and break even a small precentage, win a large precentage, and get sixthed or octed a tiny itty bitty fraction of the time.

[TheCount212]

What's wrong with raising the turn to see if we can't get a bet or two out of someone holding A5?

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Call, raise or fold river?

[/ QUOTE ]CJS - Seems close to me between calling and raising on the river.

I think you missed a raise on the turn.

Buzz

[cjs]

Buzz, if the turn is raise why wouldn't the river be a clear raise? My low, or the number of other lows, hasn't changed from the turn to river.

I guess the crux of my question is how hard do you play a one way nut hand against multiable opponents when you could be quartered or worse?

[Cooker]

[ QUOTE ]
Buzz, if the turn is raise why wouldn't the river be a clear raise? My low, or the number of other lows, hasn't changed from the turn to river.

I guess the crux of my question is how hard do you play a one way nut hand against multiable opponents when you could be quartered or worse?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the answer is because their hands are better defined on the river. There 2 flush draws and FH draws and other things people could be drawing at on the turn, but once SB bets, BB raises, and UTG and MP3 both call 2, on the river, they aren't drawing any more, they have hands. A big part of the value of the raise on the turn is to charge people drawing at naked high draws.