Hand 2: NYC Live 200/400 vs TheTakeover

[captZEEbo]

fold pre-armed robbery

[spino1i]

I fold. I wouldnt call here unless i had a good-sized flush.

[Get_better_Baris]

the 4s is kinda a blank tho. how can he ever have a flush here unless he was looking to c/r the flop and decided to c/r the turn vs a bet and a raise. no fd ever plays it that way but a weird bluff might. either its a pure random bluff, has a boat, or long shot kj,j10.we can almost never have a boat or flush if your looking at it in his mind also

[shaniac]

Aren't there one-pair hands like AQ and KK that Nick might play this way in order to isolate artie on the turn, then turn into a bluff on the river? I'm not really qualified to comment, but it seems like a possibility.

[Xaston]

[ QUOTE ]
Aren't there one-pair hands like AQ and KK that Nick might play this way in order to isolate artie on the turn, then turn into a bluff on the river? I'm not really qualified to comment, but it seems like a possibility.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking that flop with KK/AQ is pretty dangerous, but I guess it's possible.

But if he decides after your turn call that he thinks KK is beat, I don't think he expects you to fold whatever you have. He played it in an awkward enough manner that I would think, that he would think, that anything > KK is calling this river bet.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

[ QUOTE ]
the 4s is kinda a blank tho. how can he ever have a flush here unless he was looking to c/r the flop and decided to c/r the turn vs a bet and a raise. no fd ever plays it that way but a weird bluff might.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is so obviously wrong: if he thinks it's a good spot to weird bluff why wouldn't it be a better spot to semibluff given that he's got more outs but can't cold call w/a fd anyway

[Xaston]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the 4s is kinda a blank tho. how can he ever have a flush here unless he was looking to c/r the flop and decided to c/r the turn vs a bet and a raise. no fd ever plays it that way but a weird bluff might.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is so obviously wrong: if he thinks it's a good spot to weird bluff why wouldn't it be a better spot to semibluff given that he's got more outs but can't cold call w/a fd anyway

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing Devil's Advocate:

Cause he'd bet the flop with spades such an overwhelming % of the time?

[rock1]

I was surprised no one commented on my lead of 1/2 pot on the turn looking fishy...I figured Nick and Artie knew i could do this with air, so I actually threw it out relatively quickly as i figured it would engage Artie in the hand (given his state of mind at this point)...i was prepared to play a big hand against artie with my hand (assuming nick was going to fold)...

when Nick checkraised the turn, my initial thought was to instamuck...i thought his line screamed of strength...but then i got to thinking that Nick knew i liked to bluff, and that he also knew Artie would make a move on me light...and that this was a decent spot for him to make a move (lots of potential dead money in pot)...i really did think he either had a monster or relative air here (thought flush draw, AA/KK type hands were very low probabilty)...i called with the plan of seeing what happened on river...

on the river Nick bets all in...i generally dont call turns like this unless i also plan on calling nonscary rivers...but i just felt that Nick was really strong...this was quite possibly the best game we had played in all year, and i didnt think Nick would make this move on me without a hand...so i folded and nick placed his cards in the muck...

i thought the range of responses were pretty interesting...i figured everyone was going to say the turn was an easy fold...

[AAismyfriend]

In theory the river SHOULD be a call once you call the turn, but I think Nick knows that bluffing this river given your cold call on the turn is pretty suicidal, so it seems he should be bluffing here very rarely.

[Razor22]

Rock - Im sure you know your players well but I still find it hard to believe that Nick would give a free card on the flop with such a scary board. For both players to call pf raise and with a flush/straight board, it's wrong to slowplay any hand. Then to check 2x, makes it even more unlikely. You would want to get value from you big hands or bet to pick up pot. That's why I refer back to him having a flush draw and made his hand on the river. With your bet on the turn and fishy minibet raise by Artie on tilt, that would be good spot to raise with draw. I do find it unlikely after you called that he would bluff river, so therefore a draw makes alot of sense.