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#21
09-17-2007, 02:14 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
[ QUOTE ]
This is a hopeless argument. In a society where most people agree that individuals can own land, the people who don't agree will be very unhappy with the situation and vice versa. [/ QUOTE ] Not really. As I stated I agree with the phi;losophical fundamentals of the classic anarchist writers. I do, however, also strongly support the state extending the right of citizens to have the 'right to roam' and limit landowners plans to dominate the countryside etc. People who fight for this right within the system have achieved some success. Right to Roam to become Law Judge Halts Oil and Gas Development in Proposed Colorado Wilderness Ruling protects wilderness qualities and rare plants from harmful drilling Utah Counties Can't Run Over National Parks You don't own parts of our national parks just because you say so. Arctic Wildlife Gets a New Lease on Life Alaskan lake and surrounding area gets protection from drilling. Roadless Rule Repeal Repealed Roadless forests are once again protected -- for now. House Votes to Stop Subsidizing Logging in the Tongass Legislation seeks to protect America's largest intact temperate rainforest, sustainable economies dependent on it, and even save taxpayers money. Hawai’i Shoreline Access Suit Settled State of Hawai'i will reconsider definition of 'shoreline' Putting the Brakes on Fast Track Oil Shale Development Another sneak-attack on the 2006 Budget Reconciliation Bill thwarted; this one to prevent public scrutiny of oil shale development. Robledo Wilderness protected from ORVs Wilderness protected from destructive off-road vehicle use Supreme Court Rejects Attack on Monuments Earthjustice successfully defends authority of the president to create national monuments in lawsuit brought by anti-environmental groups. Senate Votes to Protect Arctic from More Drilling Attempt to hijack the Defense Appropriations Bill fails Harmful Mining Provision Derailed by United Interest Groups A sneaky effort to allow private companies to mine on public lands without paying a royalty to the taxpayer fails to make it into the 2006 Budget Reconciliation Bill. BLM Will Look Before Leasing Future oil and gas development strategies will go through environmental impact analysis Overgrazing on the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument Grazing reductions on National Monument defended Powder River Basin Protected Judge Downes determines Army Corps' CBM wastewater storage permit is illegal. Utah's First Attempt to Use New Highway Loophole Defeated State withdraws Weiss Highway claim Walton County Lands Protected Greenways and trails will help students learn about conservation Forest Service Withdraws Plan to Issue Oil and Gas Leases Near Yellowstone Following vociferous public outcry and a threatened lawsuit by Earthjustice, the Forest Service does the right thing Desert Tortoise: "Recovery," Not Just "Survival" A federal judge rules that conservation requires "recovery," not just "survival" Biological and Cultural Treasures at Makua to be Protected A March 2004 settlement requires the military to stop conducting prescribed burns at Makua Military Reservation and to complete their consultation with the USFWS in an effort to protect native Hawaiian cultural sites and endangered plants and animals. Yellowstone and Grand Teton to be Protected From Snowmobiles Earthjustice helps protect valuable and fragile ecosystems from the noise and noxious emissions of snowmobiles. Forest Service's Ability to Protect Endangered Fish Upheld Ninth Circuit denies challenge to Forest Service decision that protects endangered chinook salmon and steelhead trout. Earthjustice Defends Public's Access to Courts Earthjustice teamed with Alaskan Native groups and a political party to succesfully challenge a new Alaska state law that inhibited public access to courts. A-B Wilderness Protected From Roads The Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness is kept road-free with help from Earthjustice Clean Air Standards to be Strengthened Above National Parks Earthjustice forces EPA to end 13-year delay in raising clean air standards above nation's most prized national parks. Restricting Snowmobile Use in Yellowstone National Park Snowmobile use restricted in Yellowstone as damaging to park life and visitors. Court Requires Full Study of Mammoth Airport Expansion Judge Slams FAA for Failure to Conduct Thorough Study; A Second Case Proceeds in State Court Appeals Court Reinstates National Forest Roadless Area Protections A federal court of appeals in San Francisco on December 12 overturned an injunction that had blocked a presidential order to stop building roads in national forest roadless areas. Canyons of the Ancients Stays Quiet Negotiations with the oil and gas survey company bear fruit Bitterroot Salvage Sale Cut by Two-Thirds Project was largest in history Tongass Wilderness Injunction Buys Time Court rules Forest Service cannot continue to approve timber sales in roadless areas while simultaneously considering the very same areas for wilderness protection. Settlement Requiring State to Regulate Commercial Recreational Use of Public Lands Will protect against habitat degradation and excessive interference with other uses of public lands. Sequoia National Monument is Affirmed The national monument established by President Clinton to protect the last pockets of unprotected giant sequoias on the west slope of the Sierra Nevada has withstood a challenge. Safeguarding Hawai'i's Native Plants Under court order, in 2003, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service made final designations of more than 400,000 acres of critical habitat for scores of species of endangered and threatened plants native to Hawai`i. Gold in Them Thar Hills It looked as if nothing could stop a Canadian mining company from reopening an abandoned gold mine adjacent to Yellowstone National Park, threatening three major watersheds with acid-laced pollution. But Earthjustice had a better idea. Staff attorney Doug Honnold explains. Postal Arrogance In the mid-1980s, the Army gave the Postal Service permission to build a large new postoffice on land that was about to become a national park. Buck Parker, executive director of Earthjustice, explains what happened next. Kaiparowits Power Plant The wild, remote, rugged, and beautiful Kaiparowits Plateau in southern Utah was slated to become an industrial zone with coal mine and power plant. Instead it is now a national monument. Mineral King: Breaking Down the Courthouse Door Don Harris, one of Earthjustice's founders, tells the story of how it all started, in a lawsuit that opened up the legal system to environmental organizations and sparked the creation of the organization that would become Earthjustice. 
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#23
09-17-2007, 03:12 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
[ QUOTE ]
None of that has anything to do with what I said. [/ QUOTE ] Well, what you referred to as a "hopeless argument" was a misconception of what we were arguing about. Anyway, I have started a thread concerning this issue.
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#25
09-17-2007, 09:29 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Dont worry, I still used the private roads. No one is going to deny me the freedom of using a road that is merely kept private to enlarge the ego and self-worth of a douchey fat-cat... [/ QUOTE ] Wow. You better hope I don't find out where you live, and decide to visit you while you're not home. [/ QUOTE ] LOL, aggressive. You do realise there is a difference between ones home and the issue of buying up public land? The owners home was about 3 miles. [/ QUOTE ] WTF is "public land"? How far is far enough that it doesn't matter? [/ QUOTE ] So you propose denying people the "right to roam"? You think it is fair that pre-2007 half the coastline of England was exclusive to landowners and cut off to the public? Granted the 'right to roam' refers to walkers not drivers, but I fear you extend your love of private property to wish the denial of our rights as humans to walk on treasured land? This is an issue where I strongly support state intervention and regulation of public access to private land, but more so the writings of anarchists and individualist socialists. [/ QUOTE ] Are you going to answer my question? Is "public land" = "land I want to walk around on"? How far is far enough from my home? You personally want beachfront property, so you support government regulation. Interesting sellout.
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#26
09-17-2007, 10:02 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
Public land is generally land owned by the government with the intention that it is to be made available for public use and not privatised. E.G. In England the Peak District is 'public' in that it is partially owned by government with public interest in mind and also a non-government organisation the National Trust ("The Trust is constituted by the National Trust Acts 1907–1971...The Acts grant the Trust the unique statutory right to declare land inalienable — which prevents the land from being sold or mortgaged against the Trust's wishes without parliamentary intervention").
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#27
09-17-2007, 10:10 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
[ QUOTE ]
You personally want beachfront property, so you support government regulation. Interesting sellout. [/ QUOTE ] Strange assumption... but, actually my parents own a beachfront property in Sweden and the surrounding forestry below it is all owned by the government and is subsequently made public -in that people are free to walk and camp through it. This is a very good thing. If not for state intervention in this circumstance the alternative (if we are to believe the only alternatives rest on the existence of private property and capitalism) would be for it all to be bulldozed and have hotels etc. built in its place (guarenteed).
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#28
09-17-2007, 10:13 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You personally want beachfront property, so you support government regulation. Interesting sellout. [/ QUOTE ] Strange assumption... but, actually my parents own a beachfront property in Sweden and the surrounding forestry below it is all owned by the government and is subsequently made public -in that people are free to walk and camp through it. This is a very good thing. If not for state intervention in this circumstance the alternative (if we are to believe the only alternatives rest on the existence of private property and capitalism) would be for it all to be bulldozed and have hotels etc. built in its place (guarenteed). [/ QUOTE ] If you owned it would you buldoze it?
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#29
09-17-2007, 10:21 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You personally want beachfront property, so you support government regulation. Interesting sellout. [/ QUOTE ] Strange assumption... but, actually my parents own a beachfront property in Sweden and the surrounding forestry below it is all owned by the government and is subsequently made public -in that people are free to walk and camp through it. This is a very good thing. If not for state intervention in this circumstance the alternative (if we are to believe the only alternatives rest on the existence of private property and capitalism) would be for it all to be bulldozed and have hotels etc. built in its place (guarenteed). [/ QUOTE ] If you owned it would you buldoze it? [/ QUOTE ] Yep. (I would sell it to a private firm who would bulldoze it and build on it. Democratic governments, on the other hand, are obliged to serve the public in such matters and preserve it- as is currently the case) ...sadly I don't think I have the will-power to turn down $20,000,000+.
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#30
09-17-2007, 10:25 AM
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Re: a question about public roads
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You personally want beachfront property, so you support government regulation. Interesting sellout. [/ QUOTE ] Strange assumption... but, actually my parents own a beachfront property in Sweden and the surrounding forestry below it is all owned by the government and is subsequently made public -in that people are free to walk and camp through it. This is a very good thing. If not for state intervention in this circumstance the alternative (if we are to believe the only alternatives rest on the existence of private property and capitalism) would be for it all to be bulldozed and have hotels etc. built in its place (guarenteed). [/ QUOTE ] If you owned it would you buldoze it? [/ QUOTE ] Yep. (I would sell it to a private firm who would bulldoze it and build on it. Democratic governments, on the other hand, are obliged to serve the public in such matters and preserve it- as is currently the case) ...sadly I don't think I have the will-power to turn down $20,000,000+. [/ QUOTE ] Ha you're the biggest sell out ever. You want government to force others to stop doing something that you yourself would do? If you don't see the hypocrisy here you may be beyond help.
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