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#61
09-05-2007, 01:56 PM
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Re: NL MVP
UZR numbers through the 1st half:
Holliday +22 runs/150 games Jose Reyes +21 runs/150 games Chase Utley +13 runs/150 games Albert Pujols +12 runs/150 games David Wright +12 runs/150 games Jimmy Rollins -3 runs/150 games Prince Fielder -10 runs/150 games Miguel Cabrera -14 runs/150 games Chipper Jones -19 runs/150 games Hanley Ramirez -31 runs/150 games link The THT zone rating translations (far less granular/precise than UZR, it is basically the sum of the number of in zone and number of out of zone plays compared to the average number of in zone and out of zone plays at that position) as of August 27: (David Gassko's disclaimer: When looking at the ratings for Albert Pujols and David Wright, remember that these are just sample ratings and can be affected by sample error. Nonetheless, both have certainly had great seasons in the field.) Pujols + 31 runs (#1 1b) Fielder -6 Utley +20 (#1 2b) Reyes +8 (#8 SS) Rollins -5 Holliday +1 Wright +28 (#1 3b) Chipper 0 HanRam -23 (last SS) MCab -2 link 
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#62
09-05-2007, 02:00 PM
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Re: NL MVP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You really need to clarify if you're trying to have a post about who we think should be the MVP or about who we think the writers will pick for the MVP. In the second case, I agree we can discard anyone not on a playoff team but if you want to have a real "value" discussion then you shouldn't exclude them. [/ QUOTE ] Baseball is a team game. if your team doesnt win, i do not think you are valuable enough to win the award unless your stats are so much much greater than anybody else's [/ QUOTE ] This is entirely self-contradictory. If baseball is such a team game, surely no one player could be valuable enough to ensure victory. [/ QUOTE ] i respectfully disagree [/ QUOTE ] Ok, then explain to me what the phrase "baseball is a team game" means, and do it in a way that allows us to say a single player is the best because his team makes the playoffs. [/ QUOTE ] Baseball is a team game. Wins and Losses are all that matter. If you went 5-5 with 5 homeruns and your team lost, then you were not the most valuable player of that game. If you went 5-5 with 5 homeruns and 5 rbi and your team won 5-4 then you were the most valuable player of that game. The rest of the team was valuable for only allowing 4 runs, playing defense, and supporting you so that you could go 5-5. The team won the game, and you were the most valuable player on the team The best player in the league may not be the most valuable. Kirk Gibson was not the best hitter in the league in 1988. But he was arguably the most valuable. Would the Dodgers have made the postseason with an average player in rightfield instead of Kirk Gibson? Probably not. He had many clutch hits. His veteran leadership helped the youngsters succeed. I am a Mets fan. The Mets won their division and more games than the Dodgers that year. Darryl Strawberry and Kevin McReynolds both had better years than Gibson had. But i do not have a major problem with Gibson winning that MVP award because although his stats were not as good as McReynolds or Strawberry's, Gibson was probably more valuable to his team than either of those mets were to their team Hank Aaron award goes to the best hitter. For some reason, it is rarely publicized or recognized Cy Young - Best Pitcher Hank Aaron - Best Hitter MVP - Most Valuable Player [/ QUOTE ] Wow, this post is so stupid it is hilarious. Please tell me this is a level.
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#63
09-05-2007, 02:05 PM
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Re: NL MVP
[ QUOTE ]
Wow, this post is so stupid it is hilarious. Please tell me this is a level. [/ QUOTE ] Gibson .290 25hrs 76 rbi 130 OPS+ McReynolds .288 27hrs 99rbi 142 OPS+ Strawberry .269 39hrs 101rbi 165 OPS+ Why did Gibson win?
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#64
09-05-2007, 02:10 PM
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Re: NL MVP
why did terry pendleton win it in 1991?
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#65
09-05-2007, 02:30 PM
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Re: NL MVP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Wow, this post is so stupid it is hilarious. Please tell me this is a level. [/ QUOTE ] Gibson .290 25hrs 76 rbi 130 OPS+ McReynolds .288 27hrs 99rbi 142 OPS+ Strawberry .269 39hrs 101rbi 165 OPS+ Why did Gibson win? [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] why did terry pendleton win it in 1991? [/ QUOTE ] Because people like yourself have all the votes. This does not mean that the definitions of value commonly held by people in this forum who "know stats" are less valid than your qualitative observations about clutchiness. Too many of the voters are old fogeys who think VORP is what happens when you eat too much chili.
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#66
09-05-2007, 02:58 PM
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Re: NL MVP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Wow, this post is so stupid it is hilarious. Please tell me this is a level. [/ QUOTE ] Gibson .290 25hrs 76 rbi 130 OPS+ McReynolds .288 27hrs 99rbi 142 OPS+ Strawberry .269 39hrs 101rbi 165 OPS+ Why did Gibson win? [/ QUOTE ] Winning the award and being the most valuable player are two different things because of the voting process, DUCY? Hint look at the AL last year.
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#68
09-05-2007, 03:10 PM
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Re: NL MVP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Wow, this post is so stupid it is hilarious. Please tell me this is a level. [/ QUOTE ] Gibson .290 25hrs 76 rbi 130 OPS+ McReynolds .288 27hrs 99rbi 142 OPS+ Strawberry .269 39hrs 101rbi 165 OPS+ Why did Gibson win? [/ QUOTE ] I suggest looking up the phrase 'begging the question' on wikipedia. If you hit 5 home runs and your team lost 6-5, your team sucks. however when you reach the conclusion that batters not getting hits isn't necessarily a result of the pitcher Knowing the Hitter and Making Pitcher's Pitches but is often a result of luck and variance, then that player IS the most valuable player to his team - it is merely incidental that his 8 other teammates failed to score a run. Then when you look at things like Pythagorean wins, it becomes even more clear - players can ALL do well and as a result of some ill-timed blowouts and bad luck in 1 run games, the team could well underperform their collective 'value'. Bye bye seven minutes - I should've used you to cure cancer like I've been meaning.
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#69
09-05-2007, 03:11 PM
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Re: NL MVP
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Wow, this post is so stupid it is hilarious. Please tell me this is a level. [/ QUOTE ] Gibson .290 25hrs 76 rbi 130 OPS+ McReynolds .288 27hrs 99rbi 142 OPS+ Strawberry .269 39hrs 101rbi 165 OPS+ Why did Gibson win? [/ QUOTE ] I was referring mainly to this part: "Baseball is a team game. Wins and Losses are all that matter. If you went 5-5 with 5 homeruns and your team lost, then you were not the most valuable player of that game. If you went 5-5 with 5 homeruns and 5 rbi and your team won 5-4 then you were the most valuable player of that game. The rest of the team was valuable for only allowing 4 runs, playing defense, and supporting you so that you could go 5-5. The team won the game, and you were the most valuable player on the team." Edit: bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaahahahahahahah ahahahahahaha
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#70
09-05-2007, 04:21 PM
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Re: NL MVP
metsandfinsfan,
You agree that in the AL, the MVP MUST play on the WC team correct? Also, The Mets will probably make the playoffs by over 5 games, thus by your logic Wright has ABSOLUTELY NO CHANCE of deserving to win the MVP.
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