You make the ruling: Do the big chips play in this "all-in" push?

[Bremen]

In all three examples there are multiple rows of chips and the high denomination chips are always in the back row. To me this would be an easy decision that the bet stands at $700. The difficult decision would be if he had just one row with the whites at the other end (still unseen by the caller) since they would be in plain view to most of the table.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
In my local Casino, thats what the ruling would be for most people from most floormen. There are a few people who would get a way with this from some floormen. Sorry, thats just the way it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that "thats just the way it is" regarding different decisions. But when you have a rule that is so poorly understood or written that you are likely to get different decisions from different floor, then it is probably the rule that needs to be improved or clarified.




[ QUOTE ]
Me? I'm going to know everybodies chip position at the start of the deal. It takes a few months to learn this habit, but if you play in B&M you better develop that habit. I've caught players removing large chips during the course of the hand (great tell BTW when they are on a weak hand), and I've seen them add large chips during the course of the hand.

My first catch was a player removing chips. I bet $225 against a player who should have had exactly $225 left, and he called all in with $150. I called the floor, felt like a cheeseball for doing that, but I knew he had a few more $500 buy-ins in his pocket. Had I not known that I wouldn't have said anything. Sure enough, he rebought after he lost that hand. That was a case of pure cheating for spite (he doesn't like me ... I play hard and rough and some fish just can't stand me.

I've seen players make big calls and inadvertantly hold on to the one or two white chips they had -- meaning making the complete call, but showing no chips on the felt. Generally it's a mistake due to the pressure, but it happens and all a sudden they wannt bet that $200 when their portion of the felt was clear ... makes the loser suspicious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for taking the time to add this very good story and advice.

Quick point. You are obviously a cardroom survivor and know how to protect yourself or take advantage of the angle-shooters. But IMO it's better for the cardroom business (in terms of retaining new customers) if the rules/policies/and procedures are set up to minimize the most offensive type of angle shooting. This in turn is better for the truly good players, as you have a larger base of players.

~ Rick

[groton]

yep thats a great rule

thoe where it gets kinda Sketchy is when there is Cash on the table also.
I always try to Place my Ben's when i have them aside so you can see them with a small stack to protect them.
theo iv seen people place there bill's behind there stack and then try to angle shoot that way.

[jtr]

[ QUOTE ]
But that would be -EV in LA, since I believe the $5 chips are probably yellow. :-D

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! My chip-counterfeiting career is clearly over before it had really begun.

[AKQJ10]

There'll always be a place for you on the East Coast. I'm sure if you want to pass off $100s as $5s, they probably won't even mind if they catch you.

[groton]

lol nope wont mind

[steamraise]

[ QUOTE ]
"Players must keep their highest denomination chips visible at all times."

[/ QUOTE ]

Good rule.

In your example I would rule the big chips don't play.

[shag]

The rule in the LA cardrooms is that the highest denomination chips must be visible. If (as in this case) a player clearly is hiding them on purpose they would not play... If one chip or something was out of view to a player I would let it play.

As a side note in a 5/10 no cap game in LA I had a fairly large stack 5k or so and one of my opponents only had like 500 left by the turn and the other guy in the hand i thought only had 600 left too so I pushed all in. It turns out the guy with 600 had 3 grey (1k) chips hidden behind his stack... As it turns out he thought i was on a bluff and I had the best hand... It scared the crap out of me when i first realized he was hiding them but I didn't complain as I added them to my stack.

[AngusThermopyle]

They don't play (or consider them $5's).

If the ruling is the opposite, I demand an accurate chip count every time someone goes all in. Every time.

[cpk]

While player B should technically get a count before committing to an action, there was no way for him to visually determine how much was bet. In the interest of fairness, the $100 chips should count as $5s--thus the wager should be $700.

Player A should get a KITN for being a dumb-ass.