film: 3:10 to Yuma

[JaBlue]

CDS I LOVED unforgiven. Can you give more great westerns in place of the etc?

[talentdeficit]

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as for the contention that "The movie had been showing Ben's [crowe] disdain for his comrades the whole way": huh? when? where? what movie were you watching? the movie showed the whole way that crowe was confident that his crew would come rescue him! his line: "as sure as god's vengeance, they're coming." why was he so confident?

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did you miss the scene where charlie virtually begs ben to let him hang around and ben pointedly ignores him? (in the saloon, after dismissing the rest of the gang). or how about when ben asks the bar girl to run away to mexico with him? or when ben shoots one of his own gang for no real reason during the coach hold up? or how despite his confidence his gang is coming for him, he's desperate to escape without their help?

[CharlieDontSurf]

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CDS I LOVED unforgiven. Can you give more great westerns in place of the etc?

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Unforgiven is the cream of the crop. I'd easily rank it in the top tier of great westerns...so it is pretty hard to match or top that.


Others...
Great:
Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Shane, High Noon, , The Man Who Shot Liberty Vance, Rio Bravo, Tombstone, High Plains Drifter.

Very Good:
Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, Bad Day at Black Rock, Forty Guns, The Magnificent Seven, Seraphim Falls, The Proposition, Open Range, Once Upon a Time in the West

[TravestyFund]

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If I were a woman I would want to have Brian's babies. Just saying.

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[CharlieDontSurf]

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as for the contention that "The movie had been showing Ben's [crowe] disdain for his comrades the whole way": huh? when? where? what movie were you watching? the movie showed the whole way that crowe was confident that his crew would come rescue him! his line: "as sure as god's vengeance, they're coming." why was he so confident?

[/ QUOTE ]

did you miss the scene where charlie virtually begs ben to let him hang around and ben pointedly ignores him? (in the saloon, after dismissing the rest of the gang). or how about when ben asks the bar girl to run away to mexico with him? or when ben shoots one of his own gang for no real reason during the coach hold up? or how despite his confidence his gang is coming for him, he's desperate to escape without their help?

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ya there was def disdain for his crew but writing wise Crowe's character was alll over the place and really didn't make a ton of sense. I'd have to see the original draft but I'd hope that the character was much darker and more sinister until Cruise(originally supposed to play role) and Crowe got involved.

[oddjob]

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as for the contention that "The movie had been showing Ben's [crowe] disdain for his comrades the whole way": huh? when? where? what movie were you watching? the movie showed the whole way that crowe was confident that his crew would come rescue him! his line: "as sure as god's vengeance, they're coming." why was he so confident?

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did you miss the scene where charlie virtually begs ben to let him hang around and ben pointedly ignores him? (in the saloon, after dismissing the rest of the gang). or how about when ben asks the bar girl to run away to mexico with him? or when ben shoots one of his own gang for no real reason during the coach hold up? or how despite his confidence his gang is coming for him, he's desperate to escape without their help?

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also, it was shown throughout the movie that he knew people. he could read them, and knew exactly what they'd do, but i think what he liked about bale was he couldnt' really figure him out. he was kind of a mystery to him.

he could have escaped the entire time. he was playing with them, and he was kind of absorbed in bale and his son, william.

at the end, the running to the train scene was a bit ridiculous, but i think the reason he ended up killing charlie and the gang, was because charlie kept shooting ben, after he said No. he established in the beginning his way is law.

i think even charlie realized he screwed up, cause he saw the look in crowe's eyes, and went for his gun.

that's my take on it. i thoroughly enjoyed this movie. i dont' even like crowe that much, but he blew me away in this movie.

[bi11 frist]

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did you miss the scene where charlie virtually begs ben to let him hang around and ben pointedly ignores him? (in the saloon, after dismissing the rest of the gang). or how about when ben asks the bar girl to run away to mexico with him? or when ben shoots one of his own gang for no real reason during the coach hold up? or how despite his confidence his gang is coming for him, he's desperate to escape without their help?

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wow you're bad at movies. charlie was telling ben where he'd be cause he was trying to convince ben not to hang aruond trying to bang the barmaid when the sheriff and his men would be back any minute. the barmaid not wanting to run away with him was a non-sequiter. he shot his own gang member cause the guy didnt make sure the guards were actually dead, putting everyone in the gang at risk (ben states thats why he shot him). trying to escape even though his gang is comming for him doesnt mean he hates the gang, it means hes not an idiot.
the ending made no sense.

[mikech]

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did you miss the scene where charlie virtually begs ben to let him hang around and ben pointedly ignores him? (in the saloon, after dismissing the rest of the gang). or how about when ben asks the bar girl to run away to mexico with him? or when ben shoots one of his own gang for no real reason during the coach hold up? or how despite his confidence his gang is coming for him, he's desperate to escape without their help?

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wow you're bad at movies. charlie was telling ben where he'd be cause he was trying to convince ben not to hang aruond trying to bang the barmaid when the sheriff and his men would be back any minute. the barmaid not wanting to run away with him was a non-sequiter. he shot his own gang member cause the guy didnt make sure the guards were actually dead, putting everyone in the gang at risk (ben states thats why he shot him). trying to escape even though his gang is comming for him doesnt mean he hates the gang, it means hes not an idiot.
the ending made no sense.

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spot on.

to talentdeficit, scene in the saloon went like this: charlie says to crowe, "hey boss, we should gtfo, marshal's only half-stupid, they'll be back soon." crowe tells charlie to go ahead w/o him cuz he wants to sex the hot barmaid. ok genius?

crowe bangs her, then suggests she go to mexico with him. how the f does this show disdain for his crew? it might show that he's tired of life as a bandit, but if he doesn't wanna roll with that gang anymore, he's the frickin' leader! he can leave on a whim, or disband the whole outfit--he doesn't need permission from his crew, and he doesn't need to run away. he's the boss, get it?

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wow you're bad at movies.

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[mikech]

some more thoughts: this movie was so retarded that it defeated its own purpose. the ending was supposed to show how crowe's character turned from "bad" to "good," or at least that he found that there's some "good" within him after all. (see the exchange when bale's son says to him, "you're not ALL bad," which crowe denies and says, "yes i am.")

so crowe's supposed to achieve some sort of redemption with the ending. except, by killing his whole gang, he actually does just the opposite! throughout the movie, charlie shows himself to be nothing but an outstanding second-in-command: capable, devoted, steadfast and true. (that is, in relation to crowe; to others he is sadistic and cold-blooded.)

he demonstrates his gratitude and loyalty repeatedly. when crowe is captured he could easily make himself the gang's leader if he wanted (he IS the de facto leader during the entire rescue mission), but he doesn't even think of usurping that presumably lucrative role for himself. instead, he leads a long and arduous mission to track down and rescue crowe, eventually succeeding in the nick of time.

easy question: would any one of you guys NOT want to have a friend and colleague who's as loyal as charlie? would you not want him on your side in a battle?

well, crowe shows his thanks by shooting charlie thru the chest. twice. the second time with his gun barrel pressed up against the original entry wound, just for good measure. some redemption.

[Jean-Robert]

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some more thoughts: this movie was so retarded that it defeated its own purpose. the ending was supposed to show how crowe's character turned from "bad" to "good," or at least that he found that there's some "good" within him after all. (see the exchange when bale's son says to him, "you're not ALL bad," which crowe denies and says, "yes i am.")

so crowe's supposed to achieve some sort of redemption with the ending. except, by killing his whole gang, he actually does just the opposite! throughout the movie, charlie shows himself to be nothing but an outstanding second-in-command: capable, devoted, steadfast and true. (that is, in relation to crowe; to others he is sadistic and cold-blooded.)

he demonstrates his gratitude and loyalty repeatedly. when crowe is captured he could easily make himself the gang's leader if he wanted (he IS the de facto leader during the entire rescue mission), but he doesn't even think of usurping that presumably lucrative role for himself. instead, he leads a long and arduous mission to track down and rescue crowe, eventually succeeding in the nick of time.

easy question: would any one of you guys NOT want to have a friend and colleague who's as loyal as charlie? would you not want him on your side in a battle?

well, crowe shows his thanks by shooting charlie thru the chest. twice. the second time with his gun barrel pressed up against the original entry wound, just for good measure. some redemption.

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I think the logicians that can't wrap their minds around the transformation of Crowe's character are misinterpreting a lot of the details and missing the point in general. The character's evolution, or maybe even self-actualization, was exhibited. I don't think questions of whether or not a normal person would want Charlie as a second in command are very relevant. Sure, it isn't practical for him to do it, but he knows all the bad things Charlie, and the gang, and himself have done -- this is why he refers to them all as animals ("every last one of them")while they are holed up in the hotel room. We also know that Crowe's character has some deeper sense of right and wrong as per his open condemnation of Peter Fonda's character for killing innocent Cherokee women and Children. Of course this doesn't lead us to expect what happens at the end of the movie, but it does allow us to believe (combined with his desire to leave with the bar-maid for mexico, his urging Bale and son to leave and spare their lives, his apparent admiration for Bale's character -- exhibited from the beginning to the end of the movie -- AND charlie's blatant disobedience in the final act) that there may be some deep misgivings and conflict over his own behavior. To me, this creates sufficient plausibility for the character's transformation. All this, without getting too deep into the psycho-analytical arguments for why Crowe might want to rid himself of the demons of his past and what his crew might represent to him... Anyway... This movie is way too good to let a little disbelief ruin it. I love Bale in everything he does (check Rescue Dawn, Hard Times, the Machinist, Batman Begins, The Prestige, etc.), but all the acting was exceptional -- the son, charlie, and Crowe all nailed their roles... Go see it and decide for yourselves.