Collect Comps with no risk?

alliniwin · #1 06-20-2007, 02:23 PM

What casino game has the least house edge that you could bet the opposite of another player? I know that sounds confusing so let me explain: Roulette you can bet black and your friend can bet red. The reason I ask is because I was thinking that me and a friend could go to a casino and each bet the same amount, the opposite of each other, and just collect comps. But the comps would have to outweigh the house edge and i know on a double 0 roulette wheel this would not be the case. Also, would the casino consider this cheating? If so, why?

NickMPK · #2 06-20-2007, 03:54 PM

I don't think comps ever outweigh the expected house edge. Betting this way in roulette would guarantee that you lose more money than you get in equivalent comps.

You would lose a lot less betting the opposite way in baccarat or craps but any strategy like this would still be a net loser and would be unbelievably boring.

playersare · #3 06-20-2007, 04:15 PM

blackjack and video poker are the main comp hustle plays. the latter is probably more reliable long term (because the computer tracks every single bet and there are off the top +EV situations available), but volatility can be wide. you need to be working with a situation where the house edge is considerably less than 1%. the roulette strategy you propose (either single 0, or double with the en prison rule) is still over 2% vig, and comps would never overcome that.

pzhon · #4 06-20-2007, 04:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What casino game has the least house edge that you could bet the opposite of another player?

I was thinking that me and a friend could go to a casino and each bet the same amount, the opposite of each other, and just collect comps.

[/ QUOTE ]
EV is additive, so your average loss depends on the house advantage and amount of money wagered, whether you have reduced the variance or not.

The only way you could collect more in comps than you are paying from the house advantage is if the casino is not calculating the house advantage correctly. Usually, casinos are happy to return about 1/3 of your losses, so you want them to overestimate their advantage by more than a factor of 3. This may be because they assume you are betting more than you are, perhaps because you are varying your wagers and speed. It may be because the house advantage is lower than the casino thinks it is, e.g., average players in blackjack lose about 2% of what they wager, but basic strategy may cut that to 0.5% or less with favorable rules. However, neither of these factors seem like they would be important if you are flat-betting the opposite of your friend.

What might happen is that you play a short session at high stakes, and the casino may offer you something to encourage you to play more, an advance against future action. If you don't pay for it later, they should notice and the advances should stop.

Sports betting is one way you can bet close to the opposite of a friend. You can bet on opposite sides of the line and watch the games, paying the juice.

Baccarat is a game where you can almost eliminate the variance. You bet 20 to win 19 on the dealer, so if you bet $100 on the dealer and your friend bets $100 on the player, you will lose either $0 or $5 on each hand. The minimum wagers in baccarat tend to be high.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, would the casino consider this cheating? If so, why?

[/ QUOTE ]
Casinos can be dumb, but I don't think they would consider betting against friends to be cheating. It's obvious the casino will come out ahead.

Something many players overlook in these schemes is that they are expected to tip, e.g., to pay $1+ for each of the free drinks. The cocktail waitress is paying taxes as though you are tipping that much, so if you aren't tipping, you are not just wasting her time and energy, but are forcing her to pay money for each drink you order. You are also expected to tip the dealer occasionally as you play. Don't expect the casinos to treat you royally if you are pissing off the employees.

alliniwin · #5 06-20-2007, 04:25 PM

I see in some ads (i think in casino player magazine)that there are slot machines (the really high dollar ones like $100) pay out over 100%! How is that possible…why would the casino do that? Wont they loose money?

iversonian · #6 06-20-2007, 06:34 PM

Play craps, have a friend fade your pass line bets, be real noisy and obnoxious. Which ever one of you loses big, make a big fuss at the floorman about how you can "give him $1000 good reasons why I should get a comp", etc.

chucksim · #7 06-21-2007, 10:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I see in some ads (i think in casino player magazine)that there are slot machines (the really high dollar ones like $100) pay out over 100%! How is that possible…why would the casino do that? Wont they loose money?

[/ QUOTE ]

They're gambling that you'll burn through your bankroll on a downswing before you hit the theoretical 100%. Shockingly, not many folks have enough $$$ to fade the variance on a $100 slot.

NickMPK · #8 06-21-2007, 11:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I see in some ads (i think in casino player magazine)that there are slot machines (the really high dollar ones like $100) pay out over 100%! How is that possible…why would the casino do that? Wont they loose money?

[/ QUOTE ]

My impression is that when casinos advertise this, they are saying that they have a few slot machines that are programmed to pay out over 100%, but that they aren't going to tell you which ones they are, and they will frequently be changing which ones they are.

skitzo444 · #9 06-21-2007, 11:29 AM

What if you sat down at a blackjack table every hour when the comps guy comes around and bet $25 and then leave and go to a different table at the next .5 hour or 1 when he comes around again?

playersare · #10 06-21-2007, 11:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
My impression is that when casinos advertise this, they are saying that they have a few slot machines that are programmed to pay out over 100%, but that they aren't going to tell you which ones they are, and they will frequently be changing which ones they are.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think he was looking at ads, he's talking about the gross return charts that are posted in the back of CP magazine every month. these are taken from the actual government filings and since by law these jurisdictions must make the machines individually random, it occasionally happens that more jackpots are hit than what is theoretically distributed over a short period of time, resulting in 100%+ "payback". this is especially true with high denomination machines, of which each casino has very few units on the floor and are subject to high variance on both the player's and the house side together.