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View Poll Results: What percentage of guys could you beat in a fight?
0-10 37 6.25%
10-20 51 8.61%
20-30 81 13.68%
30-40 58 9.80%
40-50 45 7.60%
50-60 49 8.28%
60-70 70 11.82%
70-80 74 12.50%
80-90 31 5.24%
90-100 35 5.91%
Dunno / Show results 61 10.30%
Voters: 592. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:39 PM
zerosum zerosum is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: 38°31′39″N, 77°20′16″W
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Default Re: party vs stars difference

[ QUOTE ]
Testing theories is for suckers.

Clearly the problem is far too subtle to be able to test, but obvious enough for players in the know (taps nose) to notice it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. It's sublte, obvious to alert players, and it's devastating.

The following covers the period 9/21/07 through yesterday. All hands played LHE short.
[image][/image]
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  #12  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:44 PM
Rek Rek is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 747
Default Re: party vs stars difference

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Testing theories is for suckers.

Clearly the problem is far too subtle to be able to test, but obvious enough for players in the know (taps nose) to notice it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. It's sublte, obvious to alert players, and it's devastating.

The following covers the period 9/21/07 through yesterday. All hands played LHE short.
[image][/image]

[/ QUOTE ]

Tilting is so bad for you
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  #13  
Old 11-09-2007, 12:52 AM
Gonso Gonso is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: seat zero
Posts: 3,265
Default Re: party vs stars difference

I take it you're being serious, zerosum? If not lol @ me, leveled
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  #14  
Old 11-09-2007, 02:30 AM
felixleong felixleong is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Far Far Away
Posts: 61
Default Re: party vs stars difference

party is better $$$ , just stick to party then
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  #15  
Old 11-09-2007, 03:45 AM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,515
Default Re: party vs stars difference

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. It's sublte, obvious to alert players, and it's devastating.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you just trolling, or do you actually believe this?

I'm offering to bet against you. If you believe PokerStars deals are far enough from random to be "obvious to alert players," this is a chance for you to make a lot of money! If you aren't willing to bet, please come up with an amusing excuse for why we should believe something absurd that you don't believe enough to bet on, just like the other whiners.
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  #16  
Old 11-09-2007, 05:40 AM
futuredoc85 futuredoc85 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: ATL
Posts: 9,014
Default Re: party vs stars difference

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. It's sublte, obvious to alert players, and it's devastating.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you just trolling, or do you actually believe this?

I'm offering to bet against you. If you believe PokerStars deals are far enough from random to be "obvious to alert players," this is a chance for you to make a lot of money! If you aren't willing to bet, please come up with an amusing excuse for why we should believe something absurd that you don't believe enough to bet on, just like the other whiners.

[/ QUOTE ]

willing to tack on another $20k on top of whatever phizon is betting
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  #17  
Old 11-09-2007, 11:52 AM
zerosum zerosum is offline
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Default Re: party vs stars difference

Outline in detail your investigation plan.
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  #18  
Old 11-09-2007, 12:35 PM
zerosum zerosum is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: 38°31′39″N, 77°20′16″W
Posts: 219
Default Re: party vs stars difference

No tilting. I was wondering how much time would pass before that tired, old excuse/explanation would make an appearance.
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  #19  
Old 11-09-2007, 12:36 PM
zerosum zerosum is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: 38°31′39″N, 77°20′16″W
Posts: 219
Default Re: party vs stars difference

[ QUOTE ]
I take it you're being serious, zerosum? If not lol @ me, leveled

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm being as serious as a heart attack.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2007, 02:28 PM
pzhon pzhon is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,515
Default Re: party vs stars difference

[ QUOTE ]
Outline in detail your investigation plan.

[/ QUOTE ]
You didn't answer whether you are willing to put your money where your mouth is. If you believe your words enough to accuse PokerStars publicly of cheating, does that mean you believe your accusations enough to bet on them, or are you now retracting your claims and apologizing to PokerStars and everyone you tried to convince, or are you dishonest and want to keep asserting things you don't believe?

The details depend on exactly what patterns you claim. You have to be more specific than just that draws hit too frequently. At least how much more frequently do they hit? Do flush draws hit 10% too often, or is it more subtle than that, but still somehow "obvious" to observant players? Do you believe all hands are rigged this way? Does it only happen to punish players who are ahead? Does it only happen in big pots? Remember, for the pattern to be relevant, it has to show up often enough to affect win rates, so royal flushes appearing on the board twice as often as they should and aces getting cracked 0.01% extra are not viable patterns.

Just about any deviation from randomness you claim can be tested by collecting a substantial amount of unbiased data (such as hands where all hole cards are known) and analyzing it mathematically. Less subtle patterns can be tested by using data whose bias is bounded, say hands where both players were all-in by the turn.

I am a mathematician, but if you don't trust me, we can pay an independent gambling expert such as Michael Shackleford of WizardOfOdds.com to perform the routine Bayesian analysis comparing the hypothesis that the deals are completely fair and random against the hypothesis that the deals follow whatever pattern you claim. If you are right, you will be over 99% to win. If you are wrong, you will be over 99% to lose.

Are you willing to bet, or not?
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