Valuebet, right?

[villains_hero]

10/20 LHE, 6-handed, Pacific Poker

When I raised the Turn it was for a free showdown and to make UTG fold. At the river I noticed that I still have Toppair and a loose opponent.

What about 3-betting the flop?

Hero in the BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG (tight and weak) limps, SB (semiloose and sometimes spewy) completes, Hero checks.

Flop 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, SB raises, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Turn 10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, SB calls

River 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero...

[villains_hero]

By the way: "on the river" or "at the river"?

[Dootch]

Yeah I bet. I can see him having something like JT often enough here.

[StrictlyStrategy]

I think 3betting the flop is a lot better than raising the turn. Am I dumb?

[jstill]

just calldown from the flop, yeah we want to protect and not offer 8:1 to the guy calling with crap, but I dont think we re far enough ahead of sb's raise to want to and I think the EV of getting light overcalls is better than 3betting the flop (since we re often behind to sb or utg has a 2 or 5 outter)

once I dont 3bet the flop (and I pretty much never would) I dont like raising the turn, I think going for the overcalls better and again we're not doing great vs the sb's protected pot cr so I wouldnt raise the turn unless I had a vb on the river which I dont feel we do often

but as played if u raise the turn I think ur supposed to vb, tho that may only apply if the turn was HU.

fwiw TP generally isnt a good "free showdown" hand as a general rule

[Crusher19]

[ QUOTE ]
I think 3betting the flop is a lot better than raising the turn. Am I dumb?

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with this, but it depends on your history with the villain here. how often does he call down light?

[jba]

i think this is fine and I would value bet the river.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way: "on the river" or "at the river"?

[/ QUOTE ]

on is more common but both are correct.

[vmacosta]

I'm surprised by the responses in this thread. I really don't see the value in a bet here. It's hard to construct a player-type who doesn't have a better hand at least 1/2 the time when he puts in more action on the river.

Also, I think you should have called down after the flop c/r, but if you wanted to put in another raise i would have put it in on the flop.

[villains_hero]

[ QUOTE ]
again we're not doing great vs the sb's protected pot cr

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I did not make clear that his cr-range may be wide. A 9 or a Flushdraw is at least possible.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont like raising the turn, I think going for the overcalls better

[/ QUOTE ]

On the turn (thx jba) I realized that my flopcall lets UTG see another card with QJ/JT/QT. So it was only UTG I thought about when the turn card came and SB bet: Going for overcalls because UTG may now have 2nd pair, or pushing him out as he may have found a couple of outs? I decided to get rid of him - and wasn't prepared for the river spot.

If UTG was a station I would probably call turn and river.

[ QUOTE ]
(A Riverbet) depends on your history with the villain here. how often does he call down light?


[/ QUOTE ]
qft

[2muchneon]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised by the responses in this thread. I really don't see the value in a bet here. It's hard to construct a player-type who doesn't have a better hand at least 1/2 the time when he puts in more action on the river.

Also, I think you should have called down after the flop c/r, but if you wanted to put in another raise i would have put it in on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it really depends on the read you have of the player. Yeah, there are some people who are really rock-ish and then even when they just call your raise on the turn raise, it wouldn't be a surprise if you're beat.

But the OP mentioned something about how the SB is kinda loose and spewy so maybe a bet isn't so bad after all.