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#21
07-22-2007, 12:16 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
[ QUOTE ]
Call 9/10's of the time, fold 1/10 of the time. Look at the minute digit of your computer time. If it's 9 fold. Every other time call. [/ QUOTE ] What's the motivation for such a randomized strategy? Calling here is either +EV, or it's not. Personally I think we're dead here nearly always, assuming a competent opponent. Surf 
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#22
07-22-2007, 01:28 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
[ QUOTE ]
Call 9/10's of the time, fold 1/10 of the time. Look at the minute digit of your computer time. If it's 9 fold. Every other time call. [/ QUOTE ] The correct way to implement this idea is to let the cards do the randomizing. Make a list of all the value bet hands you might have in this situation and fold the worst 1/10. Do not use a random strategy where you sometimes fold A6 and sometimes call A3 in the exact same situation. That's clearly not optimal.
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#23
07-22-2007, 02:09 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
i never put in a ton of hands at any 6max limits above 10/20 but nobody i ever played with was capable of bluffing here and i was the king of bet/folding rivers so if they were gonna bluff anyone it would be me
edit: i mean no tags were capable of it. retards are capable of anything
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#25
07-22-2007, 02:44 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
IMO, the fact that you didnt 4 bet preflop (and thus cannot have KK,QQ) makes this a fold. Villian cant really put you on any hands other than an ace, and thus would ahve to be making a ridiculous play for you to be ahead.
If KK,QQ was in your range than I would be more inclined to call, becasue he could be getting tricky with JJ in hopes of either getting a free SD with his JJ or you value betting your KK,QQ and giving him an opportunity to blow you off. As played I think this is a clear fold, although I'd be lying if I said I have not paid off in this situation :-(
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#26
07-22-2007, 03:05 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Call 9/10's of the time, fold 1/10 of the time. Look at the minute digit of your computer time. If it's 9 fold. Every other time call. [/ QUOTE ] The correct way to implement this idea is to let the cards do the randomizing. Make a list of all the value bet hands you might have in this situation and fold the worst 1/10. Do not use a random strategy where you sometimes fold A6 and sometimes call A3 in the exact same situation. That's clearly not optimal. [/ QUOTE ] Nope, but it's much easier to do and in this sitution it's a very close approximation. The percentage of hands that make up A2-A8 in an optimal 3-betting range from the SB vs a HJ raise is probabily a very tiny fraction of the range. Ideally you just want to fold say 40% of A3 and call everything above, but that involves combinatorial analysis and knowledge of optimal preflop ranges.. This is pretty impossible to do away from the table, let alone at the table. I choose this simple method if I have no idea what my opponents are capable of trickyness wise and I have a hand that is binary. It can beat a bluff, but thats it. I agree with most people that very few TAG's have the guts to bluff a card like this (mostly because it never works).. So you really should just fold, make a note of the person who did it to you and then call in many future sitautions. The thing with folding here is that it is completly obvious you folded a pair of aces. Anyone who is an agressive player that can hand read is going to be frantically writing down a note on you that you can be pushed off hands to "moves". That's not to say you should never fold, but your going to have to be extremly paranoid and careful in the future.. Someone at the table may notice that you werent watching etc.. For all I know this may actually be a good thing if your a showdown monkey and happen to get an inspiration to fold here.. But I like my oppponents playing straightforward even though I am a showdown monkey. How many of you would think im bluffing here if you had JJ-KK? Poker Stars Limit Holdem Ring game Limit: $10/$20 6 players Converter Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, 3 folds, Hero calls. Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, Hero calls. Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players) Hero checks, UTG+1 checks. River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players) Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls. Results: Final pot: 9.25BB
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#27
07-22-2007, 03:33 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
[ QUOTE ]
How many of you would think im bluffing here if you had JJ-KK? [/ QUOTE ] I don't know the answer to this, but the line you took is the line to take with any ace because JJ-KK always put two bets in on the river. -DeathDonkey
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#28
07-22-2007, 03:47 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
[ QUOTE ]
But I like my oppponents playing straightforward even though I am a showdown monkey. How many of you would think im bluffing here if you had JJ-KK? [/ QUOTE ] Wildly different hand since you know UTG+1 doesnt have an ace after checking the turn, and he knows u know it.
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#29
07-22-2007, 04:44 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
[ QUOTE ]
Wildly different hand since you know UTG+1 doesnt have an ace after checking the turn, and he knows u know it. [/ QUOTE ] That's not really clear. A hand like A9/A8 might check behind on the turn when his kicker gets destroyed. [ QUOTE ] How many of you would think im bluffing here if you had JJ-KK? [/ QUOTE ] Where did I get that from? 3-betting the flop and checking the turn with a WA/WB hand like QQ is poor play without a specific reason. I will concede that many Villains do play this way with second pair so your question is not moot. As for your question I wouldn't think about it at all. Why should I waste my energy thinking when in about two seconds I'm going to see your cards [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]? Seriously this is an example of my holistic approach to poker. I've deliberately created chaos with my flop and turn play. I don't know what he has and I have very little idea what he thinks I have. I may also have irritated or provoked him with my fancy 3-bet/free card play. For me to create a situation like that and then bet-fold the river with position is just bad play. If I can't make this call then I don't bet.
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#30
07-22-2007, 06:35 PM
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Re: quick checkup: I get sexied
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] But I like my oppponents playing straightforward even though I am a showdown monkey. How many of you would think im bluffing here if you had JJ-KK? [/ QUOTE ] Wildly different hand since you know UTG+1 doesnt have an ace after checking the turn, and he knows u know it. [/ QUOTE ] very true... Although it is similar in the sense that in the OP's hand, it is extremly likely that the hero does not have > aces + good kicker and both players know each other knows this. Basically, a lot of information is revealed about the players hand. This is why I suggest playing optimally. There is no room for you to outplay them, only room for them to outplay you. Nevertheless, I meant to foucs my point towards seemingly predictable TAG's can make moves, that's all.. Although I guess this is pretty obvious.. Too many sharp minds here, gah [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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