Goose's Olympic/Powerlifting log

[Thremp]

Goose,

I don't really like any "slow" lifting. All lifts should be done as fast as possible. Then again I don't write programs so YMMV.

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
Deadlift to waist + shrug (name?)

[/ QUOTE ]

Clean pull. Part of some clean progressions. I'm surprised I don't see it at exrx.net

edit: http://www.aceathlete.com/hatch/video.htm

[GooseHinson]

Thremp,

Believe me, when the instructor told me what we were doing I knew it was going to be hell and I asked him why in the world we were doing slow stuff. He said it had to do with being able to keep the position throughout the clean and not rounding the back/trying to slingshot the weight up.

Shemp,

Yup clean pull, that's what it was called. Just slipped my mind.

[Thremp]

Goose,

Umm... I'm not sure what that means, but I'm almost positive all slow concentrics do is train you to be less explosive and weaker than explosive ones.

I know you aren't running the class, but meh... whatever works.

[theblackkeys]

[ QUOTE ]
Goose,

Umm... I'm not sure what that means, but I'm almost positive all slow concentrics do is train you to be less explosive and weaker than explosive ones.

I know you aren't running the class, but meh... whatever works.

[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the amount of force generated on one part of the lift overcompensates for a weaker part, by giving the bar momentum. If a bar has momentum, you don't need to apply as much force to keep it going. If you eliminate the ability to produce enough momentum, by going slow, you require a more constant amount of force applied throughout the range of motion. That's what I'm thinking. Although I suspect there are other methods to overcome weak points.

[cbloom]

[ QUOTE ]

Perhaps the amount of force generated on one part of the lift overcompensates for a weaker part, by giving the bar momentum. If a bar has momentum, you don't need to apply as much force to keep it going. If you eliminate the ability to produce enough momentum, by going slow, you require a more constant amount of force applied throughout the range of motion. That's what I'm thinking. Although I suspect there are other methods to overcome weak points.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is definitely the idea of "slow" lifting. 99% of people who do lifts as fast as they can cheat by starting the lift with their back and legs and a tendon-jerk, so they build up momentum in the weights and then just pull through the rest of the motion with that momentum. Of course this is exactly your goal in an olympic lift, but if you're trying to actually do a movement for the muscle contraction it doesn't target what you want. If you have the mental toughness to go fast without jerking the weight and using momentum, even on the last reps, that's amazing.

I don't really know, I think this is one of those areas where there is very little actual science behind anything that anyone says, so you can sort of do whatever.

Plyo/functional guys would say if you want to develop explosive power you should do the movements in an explosive way, eg. as fast as possible.

Since I don't know what to think I usually do a fast-lift and then a semi-slow-negative on each rep, which probably gives me the worst of both worlds!!

[Thremp]

cbloom,

Not really. Also WTF at starting the lift with your back and legs? Thats exactly what you should be doing.

http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459467

A slow negative is totally different from a slow lift.

[shemp]

I don't know the answer, but I think you guys do well to remember that this is part of a clean progression-- which isn't to say that the lifter ever needs to do a clean or that the lifts don't have enormous value on their own, but that the lifts should all support the clean. It is not a question of strength vs explosiveness vs mass vs whatever; it is, what supports the clean. The central idea here being that once you lose your back you lose power *in the clean*; we may lose it with little consequence (except safety/injury) at the limits of our dead lift.

Now I've said all that, and think it is relevant-- but I don't really understand what the instructor is doing there/why the focus on a slow movement.

[Thremp]

shemp,

Yeah, I feel you on that. But I think slow lifting in general is pointless, lower intensity, higher TUT, less "work", and has the exact opposite effect of explosive training.

[GooseHinson]

Tonight's workout

Back squats
5x135
5x185
5x225
5x245
5x255
5x275

Power snatch
5x115
5x135
5x155
5x165
5x155
5x155
1x185

Snatch pull + 10 power shrugs after each set
5x155
5x185
5x185

Snatch grip slow pulls (ugh...luckily I was prepared and chose a light weight)
3x3x205

+Some bodyweight squat circuit crap, god my GPP sucks. I never do cardio, hate it.