Suited Connectors, Implied Odds, and You (Theory/Math)

[c_strong]

Goofy,

Really nice post, thanks.

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A good play may be to call with these in position only.

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This is really important. With a small PP you don't mind being OOP so much, as you'll usually be playing fit or fold on the flop. Extraction is easier in position, but you should still be able to get stacks in with a set OOP against an overpair, TPTK etc.

With an SC, though, most of the time when you're continuing on the flop you'll have a draw. These are so much easier to play in position, where you have the option of checking behind for a free card if it's checked to you, betting or raising the flop to disguise your hand and possibly take a free card on the turn, etc. Much harder to play them OOP where none of your options are great: check/call looks like a draw, you have no FE and may not get odds to draw; leading may mean you get raised or floated so you can't take a free card; check-raising may mean you put a lot of money in to draw etc.

[nextgenneo]

Here is one thing to think about, if you put someone on aces and you have a pocket pair if you hit a set your very unlikely to get drawn out upon, however with a SC if you flop a 2 pair then its more likely that they will outdraw you so should this be accounted for in the math?

[ianlippert]

Another thing to consider is that SC dont hit against TPTK as easily as PPs do. Lets say you are against AK, what are the odds of you both hitting that flop? If you hit a straight they missed, if you hit 2pair they are less likely to have hit. I think when people think about implied odds they forget that a lot of the time you hit your hand and dont get paid off. What happens when you are playing against players that play more than top hands, if you are going to flop or fold I believe you are giving up a lot of money to these players.

Anyways this is interesting, I almost never call raises with SC and dont feel as though I am giving up as much as if I dropped PPs from my calling range.

[mornelth]

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Another thing to consider is that SC dont hit against TPTK as easily as PPs do. Lets say you are against AK, what are the odds of you both hitting that flop? If you hit a straight they missed, if you hit 2pair they are less likely to have hit. I think when people think about implied odds they forget that a lot of the time you hit your hand and dont get paid off. What happens when you are playing against players that play more than top hands, if you are going to flop or fold I believe you are giving up a lot of money to these players.

Anyways this is interesting, I almost never call raises with SC and dont feel as though I am giving up as much as if I dropped PPs from my calling range.

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You: 6s 5s
Villain: Ad Kc
Flop: 4s Ks 7c.

[ianlippert]

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You: 6s 5s
Villain: Ad Kc
Flop: 4s Ks 7c.


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I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I mean If I got a flop like this every time I played a SC I would love them.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that if the raiser has AK and I have a PP the odds of flopping a set and my opponent flopping TPTK is 3%. I dont think people have calculated this into their posts. The majority of the time you are against 2 big face cards you will not be getting their entire stack let alone the 50% that is needed to make the call.