live etiquette: he hasn't mucked but doesn't want to show 'em

[El Diablo]

creed,

As the other live NL players in this thread have written, this one's pretty easy.

Bet
Call
"you got me"
"one pair?"
"good"
show

Now, sometimes, against some players, as soon as they say "you got me" we both know I am good, so I just flip. That is generally someone I've played against a fair amount. And if I have TPTK or better, I generally just show immediately, since it is always good. But against an unknown when I'm holding a weak bluff catcher, I will normally call my hand. Sometimes it goes like this:

Bet
Call
"you got me"
"pair good?"
"which one?"
"seven"
"good"
show

I actually like shaniac's plan the least. I think silently waiting is better than "show or muck" but both imo kinda suck. As tbg says, HAVE FUN! There's a sort of code of conduct that a lot of live players play with and part of that involves opening your hand out of order when you know you are best.

[El Diablo]

coh,

I only know of one poker room where they enforce the miscalling your hand rule. I would be pleasantly surprised to learn that more rooms are adopting that rule. (ie: you have to show what you called after opponent mucks his hand)

[El Diablo]

coh,

As far as bluffing him into folding, against some players it is a sweet move to bluff call him into turbomucking the best hand. Miscalling the hand you called with in this spot is a beating-worthy offense, though.

Bet.
Call.

Silence.

He mucks.

[El Diablo]

zeebo,

In most rooms, if he mucks there, the pot gets shoved to you and you can just muck. In some rooms, you have to table a live hand. It is often good etiquette to flash a card here.

So, you have Ace-rag. Flop Ace-x-x. Bet/call. Turn third flush card. Check/check. River blank. Bet/call. He mucks. I'll often flash the Ace here even though I don't have to.

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
coh,

I only know of one poker room where they enforce the miscalling your hand rule. I would be pleasantly surprised to learn that more rooms are adopting that rule. (ie: you have to show what you called after opponent mucks his hand)

[/ QUOTE ]

There are more and more taking this path now. Casino AZ (and the other local PHX rooms). Last time I was at the Wynn a guy called "nut str8" other guy makes a crying muck and the dealer came back with "lets see that str8" and would not push the pot until he showed. I asked what would have happened if he did not have the nut str8, dealer said a big mess and the floor would have to sort it out!

I have also seen the Bike enforce this too, but it seems to be very hit and miss there.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
Any1 will tell u its +EV to have the fish liking you, or at least not hating you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realy dont think this is true in live NL, I HSNL with some people who the whole table hated and it got them sick action.

[pokeriseasy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Any1 will tell u its +EV to have the fish liking you, or at least not hating you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I realy dont think this is true in live NL, I HSNL with some people who the whole table hated and it got them sick action.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easier to bluff fish when they like you. Well at least the calling station type of fish, because they will "feel bad" if they hit their underpair set on the turn after you put out a bet on the flop.

[El Diablo]

A,

You can get the sick action without being an a-hole if people perceive that you give lots of action.

[gergery]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
usually he's expecting you to call your hand here, like say "a pair" or "ace high" or something. this is one of those things that I feel like people always used to do but not so much anymore. saying "show or muck" is fine but might be considered a little rude by some older players. I almost always call my hand in your spot.

--turnipmonster

[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds exploitable. You just claim a better hand than what you have (in this situation) and then say you misread the cards if he doesn't muck and you have to show. Especially if you've called down with ace high and you suspect he's on some small pair due to this interplay on the river; "bluffing" him into mucking would be an enormous coup.

[/ QUOTE ]

The vast majority of the time, however, your opponent will say "that's good" and wait for your to show your hand to claim the pot. If you then show that you've lied, your credibility is shot for good.

-g

[Big Orange]

I was in a situation like that. He said "You have it." But I only had 5 high so i said "OK, that's good to hear" and waited for him to muck. He waited for me to show. I waited some more. Finally he showed 6 high (the 6 played) and I showed my hand.