25nl - Flopped two pair in BB

Mantis Ant · #1 10-29-2007, 05:46 PM

Only had 8 hands on the villain. The hand right before this he had cbet and called a check-minraise on Kxx all diamond flop with QJ/no diamond, which is why I played this for a big pot.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($27.85)
CO ($7.70)
Button ($26.35)
SB ($23.70)
Hero ($25.90)
UTG ($26.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, 4 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.60) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $0.5, UTG raises to $1, Hero raises to $3, UTG calls $2.

Turn: ($6.60) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4.5, UTG calls $4.50.

River: ($15.60) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG raises to $18.5,

Final Pot: $51.90

River was a blocking bet.. uh.. yeah.

Anyway, I never know how to play when I flop something in a hand I never wanted to be involved in. What line do you take against an unknown in these situations?

Thanks.

Tito · #2 10-29-2007, 06:43 PM

I don't think it's so much the hand or the villain that you should be focusing on but more so the fact that you have 2 pair, but it's bottom two which is significantly different than top two. I am pretty hesitant to build a pot OOP, against an unknown with bottom 2 pair. It looks pretty but if villain caught any part of the flop then virtually any overcard can kill you. I would do away with the 3-bet on the flop although his minraise certainly justifies it. If you do 3-bet the flop then bet pot on the turn. I think you have to check fold that river.

The key to villains that fish too much for their flush and straight draws is to not pay them off when they hit. It turns their already bad chases into horrendously bad plays when they don't get paid. You have shown aggression all 3 streets and villain still pushes all in when the river hits. Pretty standard fold IMO. I think Brunson said something about playing bottom two pair cautiously in Super System but I can't remember. Check it out.

IceD · #3 10-29-2007, 07:12 PM

River could have completed villain's hand to beat yours; just fold it here.

Whenever you feel uncomfortable about playing a hand don't build a big pot and fold to any significant resistance. Bottom two seems pretty, but happens to get you in trouble by its beauty.

Mantis Ant · #4 10-29-2007, 07:40 PM

Ok, thanks for the responses. I've been meaning to read Super System.

I think my problem is that I expect people to bluff too often. I feel super vulnerable if I'm aggressive and then shut down when a scare card hits.

Anyway, he had 8c9c. I paid him off knowing I'm supposed to fold and posted here to reinforce my belief that I played bad.

Gullanian · #5 10-29-2007, 07:42 PM

Yeah definatly fold in that spot, you're not just worried about a FD either, the ace can often bring a bad villain a better two pair.

IceD · #6 10-29-2007, 07:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, thanks for the responses. I've been meaning to read Super System.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't start with this book for NLHE, check Books section for advice.

[ QUOTE ]
I think my problem is that I expect people to bluff too often. I feel super vulnerable if I'm aggressive and then shut down when a scare card hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you feel vulnerable when you expect people to bluff you out? That contradicts.
At this hand villain has shown reasonable strength at the flop and turn, and his riverraise almost always means trouble. He wouldn't do this at a bluff, because you've shown much strength during the hand.

Mantis Ant · #7 10-29-2007, 08:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How can you feel vulnerable when you expect people to bluff you out? That contradicts.

[/ QUOTE ]

All I mean is that it's hard for me to check/fold hands like this because I'm afraid of being (and expect to be, too often) bluffed. I feel vulnerable in that any hand could bluff me out if I check/fold here. That's my own psychological problem that I'm trying to fix, though.

This also emphasizes the importance of position to me. So that's good.

I've only put in $7.50 before the river and the logical side of my brain knows it's stupid to put in $18 more with this hand. It's the "wtf, you bluffing me?" side that hits the bet/call button [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Actually, they collude to make the blocking bet then the emotional side takes over and calls the shove.

meh. dont mind me.

Gullanian · #8 10-29-2007, 08:27 PM

It's just curiosity. Humans are curious, when you fold you want to know what the other play has, but do you want to spend $18 to confirm his hand was better than yours?