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#51
10-31-2007, 06:44 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
Out of practice in doing what? In having the pitcher bunt? There's less strategy involved in managing an NL team than an AL team. Maybe in the days when pitchers routinely went 9 and a quality closer was a rarity, there were some crucial late inning decisions to be made in the 7th or 8th inning of a close game. But not any more. [/ QUOTE ] What strategy is there involved in managing an AL team, other than writing out a lineup card that has high OBP people early, and mashers in the middle? Pull your lefty middle inning specialist when two RH batters come up? Call for a hit-n-run? That's funny, the NL has all those things, and more. By virtue of the DH, there are less in game managerial options in the AL. Your pitchers don't hit, AL teams rarely PH for position players unless it's to get a lefty/right matchup late. Maybe I'm missing here, but if you say "There's less strategy involved in managing an NL team than an AL team", then there must be some tactical decision making in AL games, that you can point out to me, that do not take place in the NL. Care to elaborate? 
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#53
10-31-2007, 06:49 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
Ordinarily i disagree with those who say there is more strategy in the AL (the same 9 players are usually int he lineup the hole game) but for Torre this might be true. Hes the only AL manager Ive ever seen who puts the DH in the field (causing you to have the pitcher in the lineup) late in games (not because of injuries which other than torre is the only time you see this happen) and at the same time downgrading himself defensively (game 4 of the 2005 playoffs against the angels he puts Bernie in center in the 9th inning of a 1 run game and the worst part was that it was a move made for 10000000000000000000000000% sentimental reasons.)
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#54
10-31-2007, 07:40 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
torre is going to make horrible decisions in the national leauge
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#55
10-31-2007, 08:05 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
Out of practice in doing what? In having the pitcher bunt? There's less strategy involved in managing an NL team than an AL team. Maybe in the days when pitchers routinely went 9 and a quality closer was a rarity, there were some crucial late inning decisions to be made in the 7th or 8th inning of a close game. But not any more. [/ QUOTE ] this is so so wrong National League game 1-1 bottom of the 7th 2 outs runner on 2nd and your ace pitcher is do up. Do you take him out? or let him bat cause he is your ace and see what happens Larussa said coming to the NL was a bigger adjustment than he ever imagined. he adjusted and has done well (well batting the pitcher 8th was retarted imo but thats a discussion for another day) Willie Randolph totally botched up every double switch he made in 2005. He has gotten better, but still screws it up. There is much more strategy to managing a national league team, and anyone who says otherwise is not looking at it rationally.
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#56
10-31-2007, 08:17 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
Your hypothetical is super easy. You take him out and if you don't have two good guys in your bullpen for two innings your team sucks hard. Your ace is likely around 100 pitches anyway so wtf? That's not a tough decision. Like I said, pinch-hitting for a pitcher is a fool's job.
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#57
10-31-2007, 08:26 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
National League game 1-1 bottom of the 7th 2 outs runner on 2nd and your ace pitcher is do up. Do you take him out? or let him bat cause he is your ace and see what happens [/ QUOTE ] The Dodgers could try something new this year when playing at Dodger Stadium: The fans can vote and decide from the 7th inning on. I am sure asking 25 fans wouldn't take too long.
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#58
10-31-2007, 08:56 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
Your hypothetical is super easy. You take him out and if you don't have two good guys in your bullpen for two innings your team sucks hard. Your ace is likely around 100 pitches anyway so wtf? That's not a tough decision. Like I said, pinch-hitting for a pitcher is a fool's job. [/ QUOTE ] It used to be a tougher decision. There were games in which sandy koufax was allowed to bat in a tied game in the bottom of the 9th and 2 outs with the winning run on 3rd (he was an exceptionally bad hitter) He would stike out and pitch 4 or 5 more innings. So obviously the game has changed a ton and pitchers wearing skirts makes decsions less difficult. But you still see tons of managers botching double switches and there are still a lot of situations where batting for the pitcher isnt as clear cut. Torre will botch this stuff miserably.
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#59
10-31-2007, 09:28 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
Well, then I guess a trained monkey must be smarter than most baseball managers, because none of these decisions are hard. I do think it's funny that you use Sandy Koufax as an example of a pitcher who didn't wear a skirt, when he is one of the poster children for not overworking your pitchers, retiring at age 30 due to injury after consecutive 320+ inning seasons.
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#60
10-31-2007, 09:36 PM
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Re: Joe Torre = Dodgers manager
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Out of practice in doing what? In having the pitcher bunt? There's less strategy involved in managing an NL team than an AL team. Maybe in the days when pitchers routinely went 9 and a quality closer was a rarity, there were some crucial late inning decisions to be made in the 7th or 8th inning of a close game. But not any more. [/ QUOTE ] this is so so wrong National League game 1-1 bottom of the 7th 2 outs runner on 2nd and your ace pitcher is do up. Do you take him out? or let him bat cause he is your ace and see what happens Larussa said coming to the NL was a bigger adjustment than he ever imagined. he adjusted and has done well (well batting the pitcher 8th was retarted imo but thats a discussion for another day) Willie Randolph totally botched up every double switch he made in 2005. He has gotten better, but still screws it up. There is much more strategy to managing a national league team, and anyone who says otherwise is not looking at it rationally. [/ QUOTE ] Is your point that this is a really close, marginal decision? Because if so, wtf cares about it. Just like in poker, the longer you argue about the way to play a hand the less it matters. Or is your point that this is a super easy decision that a bunch of managers screw up?
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