5/10 Hand - Call or Raise the flop.

[Cyclosarin]

Please ignore pre-flop and short stackedness, it's not my hand, but one I'd like opinions on relating to the optimal line on the flop. Call or Raise

"6-max on pokerstars. Villain thinks i'm a donk because I misclicked a river call in a small pot calling with K-high which was good.

I'm on the button playing 600. He makes it 30 from the CO playing 1000. I call with KsJd. The blinds pass. The flop comes 4s6sJs. He bets 70. We?"

[Borned_Luckbox1]

call, next street.

[jkj]

I'm calling and we'll see how villain reacts to another spade. Not many cards are that scary. Really only A Q. The As would be nice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Cyclosarin]

I would have thought this was an easy raise, call a shove? Anyone agree??

[Praetor]

no its an easy call

[lauren t]

i dont mind raising or calling here

[Cyclosarin]

OK, I had hoped this might start some sort of discussion. But it hasn't and I kind of expected it wouldn't because I have no real posting history here, so I'll hopefully fuel a debate about the flop.

The reason this is such an easy flop raise is because no matter what falls on the turn our equity has reduced or our money is going in worse.

There are hands that we miss out on value against if we just call, e.g. the bare As, this is getting AI on the flop almost always, in addition it is checking the turn again almost always, so I want to charge it now.

If he has a set, he's getting AI now and could easily fold on the turn if we suck out, (which we don't have odds to attempt), so a call is a mistake because our money goes in worse on the turn or we suckout, by playing against the odds.

If he has AA, KK, QQ (no spade) he *might* fold on the flop, but if he doesn't we still have decent equity anyway. Either way the flop raise is good for us.

If he has nothing, then it makes no difference, he's NEVER bluffing the turn once we call because of the short stacked nature of our crappy stack.

I humbly think that a call is far inferior to a raise in this spot.

Please someone convince me otherwise, I don't think it's a huge leak to raise or call, and probably won't affect overall results in this spot so it probably doesn't make any huge difference overall.

If he had AsJ, AsA or Axs then mneh.... we're only a short stacker and we should all die anyway...