2-pair and a set..

Jim14Qc · #1 12-03-2006, 09:57 PM

Hi, I have these two hands that were quite interesting and I'd like to hear your opinion on. No reads on villains (multi-tabling paradise for the bonus. I hate that site). In both hands I have a very good hand but I'm not sure I'm on top after the turn. In both cases, do you keep firing to extract $ or slow down? Fold ever considered?

Hand 1:

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (7 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button folds, BB raises, UTG calls, (All-In) 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

River: (12.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

Hand 2:

I smooth call the flop here with the intention of raising the turn (I'd also like to take a caller for the ride). From the pre-flop 3-bet, I'm quite scared when that K drops and villain's agression... Change anything?

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG+2 3-bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls, BB folds.

River: (8.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

runnawaybus · #2 12-03-2006, 10:51 PM

Hand 1 fine.
Hand 2, I want to raise the flop here, the pot is a decent size already an with no reads/stats I reckon ya wanna/build the pot early. Although waiting for turn aint bad.

whoisthedrizzle · #3 12-03-2006, 11:06 PM

Hand 1 seems fine, I'm raising the river probably every time without a good read.

Hand 2 I'd probably raise the flop as the pot's already fairly big, but the K on the turn makes me want to just call down.

OziBattler · #4 12-03-2006, 11:14 PM

hand 1: looks good. one guy is stacking off and I wouldnt be too concerned about a set over set and 3-7 st8 doesnt play that way on the turn (unless he is a total moran). If 3 bet on the river then I might just call since I might start to think BB as a set of 10s or 7s. BB probably has top pair or two pair as played.

hand 2: here we go....UTG pulls a super tricky LRR. IMHO this is not always AA but we have to give it some respect. I like reraising the flop to get BB out of the hand which allows us to smooth call the turn and river if he continues to bet. Truth be told...I dont mind getting this to SD for a relatively cheap price so as to see what the LRR has. sometimes it is AA sometimes it is much less.

knowing if villian had been getting beaten up and isolated lots in recent hands might be useful. If that were the case (even if it wasnt you beating him on the head) this might be the hand where he makes an stand with any two speculative cards.

Niediam · #5 12-04-2006, 04:14 AM

Hand1:

Fold preflop (unless the table is very loose). Rest is good.

Hand2:

Raise the flop. You really don't want the BB hanging around this big pot with hand like JT. Turn is definately a scary card - I think I'm cool with calling down.

bottomset · #6 12-04-2006, 08:37 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Hand1:

Fold preflop (unless the table is very loose). Rest is good.

Hand2:

Raise the flop. You really don't want the BB hanging around this big pot with hand like JT. Turn is definately a scary card - I think I'm cool with calling down.

[/ QUOTE ]

noone is ever folding a 8nut out draw getting 12.5/2

Spike Forehand · #7 12-04-2006, 10:11 AM

Hand 1:

Pre-flop is a questionable call. My rule of thumb for small pairs from MP is if any of the players to act after me show high PFR percentage, then I am folding. If not, then I call.

After that, I agree with firing all the way to the end here, as you did. I see nothing scary on this board, and if you run into a bigger set then so be it. As a pretty tight (and also admittedly slightly weak) player, I get almost all my profit from hands just like this.

Hand 2:

Interesting hand, as the limp/re-raise certainly could be a slowplayed AA or KK. Although I originally thought you should cap it here, on second thought I think perhaps the call is OK.

After the flop, you must raise here to make it expensive for BB to draw if he's got something like KJ or JT or T9, and to see if UTG+2 continues to raise aggressively, at which point you could probably put him on AA or QQ and may need to call it down to the river.

Since you didn't re-raise the flop, you may want to re-raise the turn to test UTG+2's strength. If you get re-raised then UTG+2 probably has AK or KK or AA or QQ, but you'll still need to call it down from here because you have a good hand and it's a big pot.

- Spike

Spike Forehand · #8 12-04-2006, 10:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]

noone is ever folding a 8nut out draw getting 12.5/2

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it better to raise to give him 12.5/2 than to give him 11.5/1 even with his 8-out draw?

- Spike

rkidwell · #9 12-04-2006, 11:33 AM

Hand 1: I probably would have folded the small pair pre-flop, but once you get away with seeing the flop for one small bet and then hit your set on the flop, I say you bet away. It is hard to put BB on a hand since it wasn't raised pre-flop but my read is that the BB's check raise on the turn is probably just top pair or 2 pair. I like the raise on the river.

Hand 2: Tough situation. I think you raise the flop to try to figure out where UTG+2 really is. If UTG+2 3-bets the flop, then I think you have to call it down.

bottomset · #10 12-04-2006, 11:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

noone is ever folding a 8nut out draw getting 12.5/2

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't it better to raise to give him 12.5/2 than to give him 11.5/1 even with his 8-out draw?

- Spike

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but the point was JT never folds(and shouldn't) on the flop