Top pair no kicker

[arborman]

[ QUOTE ]

if SB is as aggro as you say, why are you so sure he wouldnt 3 bet with a hand like A2 or 8x?

i like the flop raise fwiw, but its for value. i wouldnt attempt to get much information from it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

[Xylocain]

We probalby have the best hand, but if we dont we'll often get raised and lose the overlay from the people in the middle.

There is a good chance that the superagressive SB will hang himself on the big streets with people providing dead money by calling in the middle if we call but he'll fold the turn a lot if we raise.

The board is dry with no draws and the pot is ridiculously small so there is also no need to protect since most people are drawing to 5 outs or less.

my2

[Xylocain]

Abro ... why is SBs action red ??? have you been a naughty boy and doctored the HHs? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Sushiglutton]

grunch
I raise because I feel confident we will hit a flush by the river, proably by spiking the J.

[arborman]

[ QUOTE ]
Abro ... why is SBs action red ??? have you been a naughty boy and doctored the HHs? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, I was adding in the later streets from memory (OP was last night)- using my old post as a template. Didn't think about the colour thing.

[arborman]

[ QUOTE ]
grunch
I raise because I feel confident we will hit a flush by the river, proably by spiking the J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah yeah, that's why I didn't post the outcome and stuck to the flop in the OP- positive outcomes are not necessarily signs of a good play, and the flop is a position that I find myself in a lot when I limp a suited ace in position.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
We probalby have the best hand, but if we dont we'll often get raised and lose the overlay from the people in the middle.

[/ QUOTE ]

By the time SB comes around to 3-betting, we don't mind losing the overlay in the middle because of the pot size. Combine this with the read and it becomes an easy calldown when it's HU.

[ QUOTE ]
There is a good chance that the superagressive SB will hang himself on the big streets with people providing dead money by calling in the middle if we call but he'll fold the turn a lot if we raise.

The board is dry with no draws and the pot is ridiculously small so there is also no need to protect since most people are drawing to 5 outs or less.

[/ QUOTE ]

If SB just calls, that's a good thing too because not only are we quite certain that we've got the best hand, we've got three players putting in two bets each with worse hands. And if he folds out of our big pot on the turn, that's not a problem, either.

If we just call the flop bet, it would not be surprising to see SB bet again and have the other two players fold. It's not a very drawy board, so they could simply be taking loose flop peels with two overcards to the 8 and will give up on the turn UI.

By the time it comes to you, the pot is 8 SB and is no longer ridiculously small. Raising to "protect" isn't even part of the picture. It's about "value." Raising in hold'em is almost always about "value."

[Blzdwrath]

Played perfectly IMO

[Xylocain]

I made that post, because I kind of rock at flinging tons of bets into these situations, but I havent really figured out how to extract maximum when ahead while losing minimum when behind here ... so I'll expand fell free to berate.

Raising the flop puts 3 SB in, but likely will fold worse hands with no draws on the turn because the LAG betting and a LP TAG raising is a pretty strong message on a dry board. If we call, then people can call the SB with a much wider range since he is likely FOS. (SB betting +1 caller == 4 SB witch is still less than 3SB + 4SB ... but in that case we are also up against much more defined hands)

My thinking is that this is the opposite situation of flopping a set. With a set, we typically play agressivly regardless if we think people will fold because we want to give ourselfs the chance to get action. With this hand, we dont really want action because it cant stand any (short of going to showdown vs SB), but it can take a lot of callers.

Not sure if I make sense.

[LukeSLTS]

I hear what you're saying but this situation is not different than flopping a set because I think we have the best hand often. I think we all pretty much agree that the two callers in the middle have some sort of gutshot or one pair hands with 2-8 outs against us. UTG is pretty aggro so on the flop we have to assume we are ahead with top pair. Raise and maybe UTG will 3-bet and force the callers to pay more for their draw.