Steve Badger's advice

[chucky]

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You really need to work on your reading comprehension.

[/ QUOTE ] Perhaps I do need to work on my reading comprehension. However, I currently do not understand:

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The fact that it doesn't lose more is what proves him wrong.

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Badger asserts that playing hands OOP for a raise loses more money than folding all but a very narrow range of hands OOP for a raise. If Badger is correct, then players who play more than his very narrow range of hands OOP for a raise will show worse results from EP than a player with a very narrow EP range.

Iggy's point is that since good players aren't losing more in EP by playing looser than Badger suggests, Badger is wrong about how narrow people should call raises in early position from late position raisers.

[holdemsucks]

Thanks for explaining how the point of Iggy works. Actually, I do not think that your starting hands are as wide as you seem to be inferring. Of course, this could just be because most posts are questions on hands in later positions... So I reckon that you guys do not differ that much...

[chucky]

One thing I would point out is that Badger is vague about what hands he would consider playing OOP for a raise.

[holdemsucks]

Interesting - I think he intended to be vague because in the conclusion he states "personalities, chip stack size and table position dictate play much more than the spots on the pasteboards".
See if he is very particular about "what hands he would consider playing OOP for a raise" then readers don't end up doing a lot of thinking. After all, he recognizes that people need to think for themselves at the main page.

[iggymcfly]

Actually, 15-20% was an understatement, because I figured that's the minimum that good players would play from EP. I play more like 22% or 23%. If you want a list of some hands I've played UTG in a FR game, here you go:

KK63, AKQ9, AKQT, TT86, T986, KKQ5, 9885, KQJT, KJT9.

Those are all hands I've played recently from UTG. The 9885 might be a little sketchy, and the AKQ9 would probably need suits to be playable, but in general all those kind of hands would be OK as would some low runs like 7654.

[TheRempel]

I don't really understand why this discussion is still going. Obviously there are people on this forum that have cultivated winning styles over hundreds of thousands of hands. It is very obvious to myself and probably most of these other players that Badger's style is at best a recommendation for beginning PLO players who have very little concept of the game. Anyone who adopted this strategy in normal cash games would be giving up as much as 5-6BB/100 hands playing this way assuming they play well postflop.

[holdemsucks]

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I don't really understand why this discussion is still going. Obviously there are people on this forum that have cultivated winning styles over hundreds of thousands of hands. It is very obvious to myself and probably most of these other players that Badger's style is at best a recommendation for beginning PLO players who have very little concept of the game. Anyone who adopted this strategy in normal cash games would be giving up as much as 5-6BB/100 hands playing this way assuming they play well postflop.

[/ QUOTE ] Would everyone agree that a) position is the most important thing in PLO but a smidgen less than what Badger says and b) cards matter just a smidgen more than Badger says?

[AlexKP]

Gimme this cracker HU or on a 30k sample who will do best...

[TheRempel]

I guarantee you 100% that I could play you or anyone else who advocates that particular style of play out of position every hand and still be a signifigant winner.

Position is very important in PLO but to make it the be all and end all of your playing style will get you breaking even to the rake very very quickly.

Play real money for 40k hands and see how well you do. I'm guessing at best, unless you run really hot, you'll make about 2BB/100 at any level 0.50/1 or higher. I'm not going to add anything more to this useless thread.

[holdemsucks]

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Gimme this cracker HU

[/ QUOTE ] I do not even play heads up!!!