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Old 09-20-2007, 08:27 PM
GoodCallYouWin GoodCallYouWin is offline
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Default Propaganda and freedom

The purpose of propaganda is not to convince or to persuade but rather to render any independent criticism that is not part of the propagandist output seem outlandish and absurd. Noam Chomsky said it best, whenever you hear something stated very matter of factly, it's a good idea to take a step back and ask yourself, "is this really true?".

There's a saying that goes "if you do not stand for something, you will fall for anything" and I think that in political affairs there is nothing more true than this. Many people attempt to defeat this problem by hitching their wagons, metaphorically speaking, to a particular political party. The problem I find here is that, as Lord Acton famously quipped "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". In their lust for power, political parties inevitably shed ideology and adopt pragmatic policies. In 1992 Clinton adopted a strategy of 'Triangulation' to acheive the Presidency; by adopting many 'right wing' policies he was able to take many centrist or right of center voters away from Bob Dole and assume the presidency. In contrast, the two most ideological presidential candidates, Barry Goldwater on the right and George McGovern on the left, both suffered incredible defeats at the hand of more centrist candidates (LBJ and Nixon respectively). Indeed in the McGovern vs Nixon campaign Nixon himself used a form of triangulation against McGovern and carried 49 out of 50 states.

The solution I find then, is ideology. Ideology serves as an intellectual grounding for political beliefs and provides a roadmap for any future decisions you may have to make. Rather than simply following the decisions of a political party, which often has concerns other than 'what is best for the country' at heart, you can avoid many of the pitfalls of modern political thought. My particular ideology is Anarcho-Capitalism, rooted in the works of the Austrian school of economics. The writing of Ludwig von Mises, F.A. Hayek, Carl Mengar, Murray Rothbard and others. It is my sincere belief that at the heart of the greatness of man and the incredible technological and material advancement of the last 200 years is a single concept : freedom. Economic and political; social and physical freedom bring both peace and material well being.

There will always be men trying to take away our freedom (they're usually politicians or people who lobby politicians!) and there will always be a great mass of individuals willing to trade their freedom for 'a chicken in every pot'. Those who defend freedom must be ever vigilant; we must see conspiracies and plots at every possible opportunity because if we wait until our freedom is gone to fight for it, it will be too late.
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Old 09-20-2007, 08:49 PM
natedogg natedogg is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

My ideology is this: do not use coercion except to prevent coercion.

natedogg
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2007, 12:47 AM
boracay boracay is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

"Any who act as if freedom's defenses are to be found in suppression and suspicion and fear confess a doctrine that is alien to America." - Eisenhower

"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2007, 01:24 AM
Zeno Zeno is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

Free Thought and Official Propaganda [Bertrand Russell]
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2007, 01:34 AM
blackize blackize is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

[ QUOTE ]
In 1992 Clinton adopted a strategy of 'Triangulation' to acheive the Presidency; by adopting many 'right wing' policies he was able to take many centrist or right of center voters away from Bob Dole and assume the presidency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clinton ran against George H.W. Bush in 1992. Dole was 1996.
/nitpick
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:39 AM
Moseley Moseley is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

[ QUOTE ]
"Any who act as if freedom's defenses are to be found in suppression and suspicion and fear confess a doctrine that is alien to America." - Eisenhower

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 180 degrees out from Bush's position.

[ QUOTE ]
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[/ QUOTE ]

This is 180 degrees out from mainstream America. That is why Bush was reelected, and why he gets away with what he does.
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Old 09-21-2007, 01:56 AM
QuadsOverQuads QuadsOverQuads is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

[ QUOTE ]
That is why Bush was reelected

[/ QUOTE ]

Bush was never legitimately elected, let alone re-elected. He's been a crook and a fraud from day one, and the cons are already laying the groundwork to steal 2008. Please don't accord these thugs a legitimacy they have not actually earned.

</public service announcement>


q/q
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:01 AM
QuadsOverQuads QuadsOverQuads is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

[ QUOTE ]
The purpose of propaganda is not to convince or to persuade

[/ QUOTE ]

And let's not forget that more than a few propagandists in history have been paid for their disruption and harassment services. Not that this has any bearing on GOP internet trolling or anything ...


q/q
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Old 09-21-2007, 02:09 AM
RedBean RedBean is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

[ QUOTE ]
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't Franklin say this in the context of criticizing those who wouldn't pick up arms and revolt against England to gain freedom from the throne, instead choosing the "temporary safety" of remaining aligned with the King?

If you think about it, what he meant here is those that aren't willing to eschew their safety and fight for their own freedom deserve neither.

Misapplying this quote when someone bitches about today's government wiretapping terrorists, etc, is a wee bit disingenious.
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  #10  
Old 09-21-2007, 02:14 AM
zasterguava zasterguava is offline
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Default Re: Propaganda and freedom

I found your post interesting, but you lost me here:

[ QUOTE ]
we must see conspiracies and plots at every possible opportunity

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems absurd to me. It's this line of thinking that makes people claim 9/11 was a conspiracy to suit their own ideology (e.g. claims that have insufficient proof, unlike, lets say the proof there is to expose the lies of Gulf of Tonkin).
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