Absolutely heated about JC Tran situation at Foxwoods

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
also your playing poker. after all betting WHOEVER HAS THE BEST HAND GETS THE POT. THERE WAS NO MORE BETTING.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you purposely ignoring the fact that I'm saying the hand should be dead when the player folds his hand? aka....hits the muck and half flips off the table....aka...starts shipping chips into another players stack because he folded?

For somehow literally the 100th time, we all understand the correct ruling was made, but the rule behind the decision is ludicrous. The players making these blatant folds and awkwardly fixing their mistake while everyone watches and shakes their heads, they need to be held accountable.

[PlzHelpMe]

no.. he's all in. no more betting. the best hand gets the pot PERIOD.

[Mitch Evans]

LOL at people trying to apply a cash rule in a tournament. In a cash game, it's dead; in a tournament, it's live. That's the rule for tournaments. You don't have to think it's fair or like it, but you must abide by it.

[Rzitup]

[ QUOTE ]
The players making these blatant folds and awkwardly fixing their mistake while everyone watches and shakes their heads, they need to be held accountable.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you allow them to fold then you have to eliminate the original rule. That isnt going to happen.
Which means, there is NO SUCH THING as a fold when all-in in a tournament. No such thing. You cant fold, he cant fold. Cards get turned up.

You dont have to like the rule, and you can debate if it is good or not. But there is no getting around it. It's either one way or the other, and I dont think its going to change anytime soon.

[PlzHelpMe]

i'm done opening this thread and have concluded OP is either JC tran's personal bitch/assistant/horrible publicity rep, or simply as dense as they come.

[0524432]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm done opening this thread and have concluded OP is either JC tran's personal bitch/assistant/horrible publicity rep, or simply as dense as they come.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know I was just thinking, I give up. For whatever reason, you've decided to sit back and re-read the rule over and over instead of having a meaningful discussion about how this rule to deter collusion affects the game. GG

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't quite understand why this is the rule for tournaments. I mean, I understand the need to prevent collusion, but why can't it be handled the same way as a player who mucked his cards in a cash game when another player requests to see his hand? That is, grab the cards, symbolically touch the muck with them, declaring the hand dead, then turn them over for everyone to see.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's the scenario.

Colluder 1: "I'm all-in."
Colluder 2: "I call."
Colluder 1: "I have junk. I fold."

The dealer does the killing of Colluder 1's hand and Colluder 2 still gets all the chips. You've failed to prevent the colludres from achieving their chip-dumping goal.

If you also show Colluder 2's hand, he still gets the chips despite possibly showing a junk hand.

If you force them to play out the hand, the two colluders don't know where the chips are going. Presumably, they want control over that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I understand the theory behind the justification, but it still doesn't make that much sense to me. The main way that the rule discourages chipdumping/collusion is the showing of the hand, which should be enough to detect and deter all of the most sketchy cases, like the one you created. I don't see how forcing people to run it out when one person mucked his cards with a very small amount of EV really provides much of a meaningful deterrent. I imagine there are easier ways to chip-dump if you so desire.

[PlzHelpMe]

One thing i will say this rule was *not* enforced at the bellagio cup 10k ME in a hand i played where villain mucked on turn after calling my shove. Dealer pushed me the pot without even dealing river. Although he was drawing dead but same difference dealer should have exposed hand and dealt river.

[pokey79]

I'm in a tournament, same table as JC Tranone time. I've been raising a lot. I throw my cards at the muck after winning a pot uncalled. JC Tran intercepts my cards and looks at them before mucking them (and he's not even in the hand)!
I don't know what other people call that, but I call it cheating.
He's the last guy who should talk about rules and ethics.

[ShizzMoney]

>The problem is the rule. JC got screwed even though the ruling was correct. They need to change the rule.<

Just like Tom Brady "didn't fumble". And just like that 2001 Tuck Rule, this rule is in place for a flawed yet necessary reason (prevention of chip dumping; for the floor staff to review big pots; for media outlets like CardPlayer who cover these events and for fans following the action online to document the big pots)........ but that reason IS flawed, especially when it comes to a villain trying to throw in the towel maliciously.

Like the Tuck Rule which was revised the year after the Pats won their first title, hopefully the TD rulebook committee can add a provision for this next year so such donkfilled carelessness can't be rewarded. The only difference between the Oakland/Pats game and JC is that I feel SO sorry for JC (if there is one guy who can short stack ninja his way back after a bad beat, it's him) and that I (or most fans) don't really care about the Raiders.

On another note, classic DonkWoods here! Only here where you are in the middle of a WPT main event and have a villian overbet the flop where he can only get called if he's beat, then trying to give JC his chips and not knowing the rules (suprised JC didn't know it either), THEN hits the mircale to survive, only to make his envitable charitable donation to the poker community a level later.

Only at that casino is where you truely see things that you just don't understand nor comprehend; its like the Bermuda Triangle of Poker.

At Donkwoods, my fingers are snappin'
Jammed Ace-Seven offsuit with a runner-runner gutshot,
See what happens!

Donk off your chips,
Round and round we go!

Life is good, life is sweet;
Flop trip nines? Sorry sir, you've just been beat [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

And we live, for the wonderrrrrrr
Of it alllll!

Donkwoods! (drum)