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#1
08-15-2006, 01:43 AM
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Check Raise bluffing
1)
How often do you guys checkraise pure bluff? For instance, you defend in the BB with 98, flops are i) A72 rainbow ii) A72 twotone iii) J66 rainbow iv) J66 twontone v) K72 rainbow vi) K72 twotone How often are you going to take a shot at these flops? I'm doing well playing fit or fold and never taking a shot at these, but provided I have a good image, and stealer is reasonable, it is actually going to be quite hard for him to have a hand good enough to call down here, if he is raising 40% of his range right? 2) You defend J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] flop is something like 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] my norm is to check call here, as I think he have 6 outs the majority of the time, backdoors, could get a free river etc. does everyone check-raise a 9 or a Jack most of the time here? How about checkraising a King, Queen or Ace? They key to checkraising a King is that you would expect the raiser to bet it almost everytime, and normally he wont have a pair of kings, and often won't have a hand good enough to call down, especially if you have a good image. In both of these examples, what do you think about donking instead of checkraising? It costs half the price and may well work almost as often. If your opponent is reasonable and views you as solid, then he will know that your donk bet could well be a made hand, and provided you keep the chicanery to a minimum, he will give up a lot no? 
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#2
08-15-2006, 02:25 AM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
1)
How often do you guys checkraise pure bluff? For instance, you defend in the BB with 98, flops are i) A72 rainbow - rarely. depends on my image and my history with the stealer. I usually have really bad players one (and hopefully 2) to my right, so i don't run many(any) pure bluffs vs them. Against a TAGy player this is a decent spot to c/r but many at 10/20-30/60 are advanced enough to do weird things like 3betting KJ. ii) A72 twotone - almost never. Thinking players are more likely to put me on unpaired since i'm c/r'ing FDs here anyway, along with Ax, 7x, and 2pr/sets. iii) J66 rainbow - rarely. The types of guys who raise 40%+ of their hands typically peel one or two streets with as little as King-high and def call down A-hi, so it's kind of counterproductive in most instances. iv) J66 twontone - almost never, see above. v) K72 rainbow - same as A72 vi) K72 twotone - same as A72 2) I c-f that flop unless A) villain gives too many free cards(rare) B) I'm planning on making a play when a favorable card hits. In terms of restealing... Overcards are obvious "steal" spots, something like a 7 or 5 is a bit more convincing depending on your opponent's tendencies. Donking is a good option because it's cheap, and is a headache to deal with. Many will make curiosity calldowns, though. Surf
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#3
08-16-2006, 03:29 PM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
I agree with all of #1 that Surf posted. Stealing on those boards against most stealers without any showdown equity is a bad idea. But again, some passive stealers will fold to a flop c/r if they don't hit.
On #2 - if I'm defending against a TAG, this is an easy c/r for me. Many stealers will have overs to this board and be wary of to the low board. I'm leading any non-A/K/Q turn and folding to a non-helpful turn where the stealer makes a play for it. As for laggy stealers (or even passive stealers that will continuation bet the flop), I would call and either donk or c/r non-paint (except a J) turn. -eric
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#4
08-16-2006, 03:39 PM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
If you want to resteal 3bet pf IMO.
You are calling with 89 saying "hey, let's see a flop and see what I can do". Then, the flop comes down A72. You missed. If you were telling me what to do and you said, "ok danza, now c/r the flop" i would ask you what happend to your plan pf? We missed, completely. You can muck here. BTW - my least favorite flops to play back at on are XXY flops. They go to shodwon with ace high alllll day long. Hand #2) I usually will call here depending on the villain. If i pick up a draw on the turn i will strongly consider donking. Donking drives 'em nutso and nutso makes 'em busto.
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#5
08-16-2006, 04:39 PM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
yeah bluffing on xyy is so bad. Maybe its so bad that it gets respect?
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#6
08-16-2006, 04:47 PM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
I fastplay the snot out of my hands on that board (like JT on a TT4) because i don't ever see anyone ever folding to me on it.
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#7
08-16-2006, 04:48 PM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
one thing you should be thinking about in these examples is whether the sb called preflop. If he did there is an extra 1.5 sb in the pot which makes a pretty big difference.
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#9
08-16-2006, 07:41 PM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] yeah bluffing on xyy is so bad. Maybe its so bad that it gets respect? [/ QUOTE ] I've actually been pulling this lately a lot more than I used to (which was never). [/ QUOTE ] Right, if you play on a smaller site like me and your opponents know you are good, thinking TAG then they will likely assume you have something. I've check raised on xxy flops with the goods many times and got plenty of folds, so doing it as a bluff now and then cant be bad. Also, even if they are taking Ace high to showdown often, an aggro stealer will have <=K Hi often.
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#10
08-17-2006, 10:59 AM
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Re: Check Raise bluffing
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] yeah bluffing on xyy is so bad. Maybe its so bad that it gets respect? [/ QUOTE ] I've actually been pulling this lately a lot more than I used to (which was never). [/ QUOTE ] The thing that I hate about it is on a board like JJ4, people will call a c/r almost always. So it costs you 2BB's to bluff at it.
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