What are you more likely to do? *Poll*

[timoK]

[ QUOTE ]
...if we look at his river AF < 1. I mean, I highly doubt that this opponent can make thin river value raises...

[/ QUOTE ]

damn right.
If you guys make a decision based on these stats take into account that a nitty guy like this dont make thin value bets on the river. he is either way ahead or trying to pull a desperate bluff against a regular who he thinks might fold.

on the other hand:
why is nobody talking about a flush draw?
I saw many passive players like villain who raise their (rather lowish) flush on the river.
people do this because:
- they are passive and afraidof higher flush and much heat (on the turn)
-> therefor raising (any) river makes them get another bet in without much fear of more heat

(I votet for call in vote 1 but I dont know about vote 2. I guess I would use the 3 bet line but I wont say it's the better line)

[timoK]

btw:

WTSD: 43.5%
W$SD: 55.25%

is this for real? looks to me like somebody is on an insane heater (at stars low limit nobody has stats like this!!!)

[Spy Dog]

Check-calling this river should be getting more love. I'd say most every hand that calls a river bet will bet the river when you check. So, you lose a small amount of value if he wusses out with a hand like 88. But I think you gain that back by not paying 2 bets with Tx, which is strongly in his range. Throw in the chance that he bluffs with one of the 2 possible broken flush draws and check-calling could be the best play. And if check-calling is the right play then checkraising and folding to a 3-bet might be even better.

[jstill]

fwiw my stats are pretty close to villains and id pretty much always have a T here

in most of the games ive played online 3betting wouldnt really cross my mind, and neither would folding though Im wondering if anyone does fold here, im guessing not with this many missed draws out.... gehrig, what you think? what board could we bet fold on with the T pairing and how much does where he opened from come into play in the decision?

I guess the question is versus a regular or decent player (not always the same thing) are you betting AK or AQ suited here or whats your river line? and depending on your answer to that, what hands should he raise on the river (and is he likely to play this way, ignore that for now I guess)? Id love to hear peoples answers to these questions

fwiw Oink this WA WB line is way more likely in position, and Im surprised u think its uncommon, like Miles said in similar threads tons of people on this site would advocate not raising the flop or turn with a T here

and to spy dog, I think ck call loses too much value to A hi that will not be when u ck, worse PPs probably bet alot here trying to get value from AK and hands like QJ or random missed flush draws are a bit less likely becuz he was UTG and wont always bluff when u ck like ud like since he probably expects u not to ck fold A hi here. If hes mouth breather yeah his range will be wider and he mite insta bluff when u ck without showdown value without thinking but he also might be dumb enough to ck a PP when u ck here so its a double edged sword as he gets worse kinda

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]


fwiw Oink this WA WB line is way more likely in position, and Im surprised u think its uncommon, like Miles said in similar threads tons of people on this site would advocate not raising the flop or turn with a T here


[/ QUOTE ]

Oink asserting that Tx is uncommon here is a classic example of someone who just makes up facts out of nowhere to support their viewpoint. If Oink was honest with himself there is no way he would believe what he's saying. Miles basically caught him in the act and I'm just here giving the recap.

[Oink]

[censored] you ILP and learn to read

Reread post and realize that I was talking about my games in which WA/WB is dead.

Obviously you will see it more on AP where the average AF for 2p2'ers is 0.9 but I wasnt talking about that.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
[censored] you ILP and learn to read

Reread post and realize that I was talking about my games in which WA/WB is dead.

Obviously you will see it more on AP where the average AF for 2p2'ers is 0.9 but I wasnt talking about that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I'm talking about Oink, both these realities you just mentioned are complete fabrications.

Your'e just making stuff up to support your claim. It's funny/interesting to note that my dad uses this same approach when I argue with him, and when I point this out to him I get the same kind of [censored] you response. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Oink Im also willing to accept the possibility that youre not making things up but rather your perception of reality is just extremely warped.

[Oink]

Go tell your dad a guy who owns you online says to kick your ass [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously. WA/WB is dead where I come from.

This thread is silly now. We all agree on what to do against this guy and now we are debating how games play at various sites.

[context]

Isn't this a standard way to play AA or KK? Especially dependent on the image of OP?

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
Go tell your dad a guy who owns you online says to kick your ass [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Seriously. WA/WB is dead where I come from.

This thread is silly now. We all agree on what to do against this guy and now we are debating how games play at various sites.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont own me online. Im a ghost online. I come, get the money and vanish without ever being detected. You cant own something that doesnt exist. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] My 53 year old dad can kick my ass but thats becuz I'm a pussy and that's really not relevant to our discussion.

I question the validity of your claim. Whenever someone makes any statement about any large population with nothing more than anecdotal evidence it is only prudent to be very skeptical of such a claim.

Heres a few statements by you that I'll talk about:

"But where I come from I see the WA/WB line like once every 20k hands."

I highly doubt this statement is true, but even if it was, this insight doesnt really help us on the river once were raised.

"Villain just doesnt have Tx here. I dont care how unrealistic it is for him to c/r/c 77, 88, 99, JJ, AK, AQ it is more unrealistic for him to have Tx."

Once a party regular raises the river, you need to update your analysis. You and DeathDonky are dramatically underestimating the amount of new information a river raise confers. The supposed reality that most party regulars dont take wa/wb lines with Tx in this spot is almost meaningless once we are raised on the river.

In order to 3bet this river profitably you need a very specific read. Relying on a general read is just gonna cost you money in this marginal situation.


"Against a regular in a party midstakes I am insta 3-betting fwiw."

This is where I thought you were lying/just making up facts becuz this advice is beyond terrible and I dont believe you would ever 3bet this river against a party regular. Ironically, I was actually giving you credit by calling you a liar.

And BTW, this was already one of the worst threads in 2+2 history before I joined in, and I think Joetall should feel embarrassed for even making this thread. I believe my contributions have debased this thread even further and I will take pride in that.