PNL & the Jocks vs Nerds issue - Page 2

daveT · #11 07-30-2007, 01:37 PM

You mean the same way that NL players think that they are better people for not playing Limit?

The people are all ignorant, there is not a huge gap between 6-max and FR, and not a huge gap between Limit and Capped NL games.

It is all poker, it's like cars, yes, some may want to drive a stick and others an automatic, some people like compacts and others like large cars, it's all driving, yeah, we may have to make adjustments, but cars like poker, just what one prefers is what one prefers and can show a lot about our selves and insecurities.

Whatever, I like all the forms of all the poker games, (excluding limit Omaha) and have the most love for heads-up Limit. Am I cooler or nerdier for it? It doesn't matter because I withdraw money, not deposit.

Jeff76 · #12 07-30-2007, 01:57 PM

I play FR all the time, and you constantly hear things like "no one who plays FR is good at poker." and "six max is REAL poker".

I heard the same things when I was mainly a tournament player about cash games vs. tournaments.

No matter what, I fear I'm destined to be playing these "lesser" form of poker no matter what I choose.

I really hope there isn't a 6 max only book, nor would I want a FR book. The more generic the better, IMHO, because who knows what the latest "fad" will be in 5 years? A book that teaches principles that can be applied to most games is more beneficial in the long run than one which focuses on a small segment of what is popular today.

I once asked a good 6 max player why 6 max is more profitable, and he said "because that's where the fish are. If fish started playing FR more, there wouldn't ever be a reason for a winning player to play 6 max again." I don't have any experience to back this up, but it is a poster I respect (and also, it's the only answer that makes sense). If it is true, though, it just underscores the point that we need to be fully equipped to handle the changing nature of poker.

Oct0puz · #13 07-30-2007, 02:12 PM

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I made this tread asking them to make vol II more general but to then go ahead and write another book devoted entirely to 6-max.

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You can never fill a whole book with only 6-max concepts. As has been mentioned eariler many people have a hard time to realize that the concepts for FR and 6-max are almost indentical. The only big difference is PF and game conditions. Generally 6-max players are much looser even postflop.

And if you didn't know you play 6-max all the time in FR games. Every time the first four players fold only 6 players remain.

BozMan82 · #14 07-30-2007, 02:55 PM

Short-handed situations definitely deserve coverage. Even when you try to play full-ring, there are always times when there are open seats (both live and online).

That being said, I hope Vol II covers other topics besides just short-handed/6-max. Knowledge about that is just part of being a well-rounded cash game player.

I think one of the co-authors previously indicated somewhere that Vol II will cover bluffing and c-betting in more detail. I'd like to see that examined in a wide range of scenarios (not just short-handed).

JROK777 · #15 07-30-2007, 04:11 PM

I vote for 6 max. I think anyone who is striving to be a top earner playing NL is going to want to play 6 max. I also think that most of the concepts for 6 max may apply to FR. 6 max is a new form of poker and many old schoolers don't want to put the effort in to relearn a game. I imagine Super System has enough info to make anyone profitable playing FR. 6 max is a very tough game and it would be nice to have an expert lead us. 2+2 has always been on the cutting edge and needs to produce a book on 6 max. Log into FT and see how many 6 max games are going vs. FR. Then make a list of all the books that are written on 6 max vs. FR. It looks like 6 max would clearly be the most marketable product. Any serious FR player would read it anyway.

Matt Flynn · #16 07-30-2007, 04:56 PM

Hi from Chester, California.

On vacation here at Lake Almanor with no internet access at the house, only at the coffee shops in town. (Coffee Station for any locals out there.}

I think of it as "Will this hand be profitable? If so, how should I play it to maximize profit?" That concept applies from 2 to 9 opponents. In general, in 6-max, you have less chance of running into AA-QQ, more aggression preflop with wider ranges, and a little more aggression postflop, with some players going nuts. So, you adapt. In general, you still want position, you will get all-in more often on average than with FR, variance goes up, and the temptation to spew and be inappropriately hyperaggro goes up for some people.

The question with 6-max is specifically adapting to the differences. REM and SPR offer a start. I'll write more about specific adaptation to 6-max in volume 2 unless Sunny beats me to the chapter. Hopefully that will be helpful.

I here the generalists loud and clear, and the 6-maxists. What would be more interesting to me is a book on Adapting, not just to 6-max but to any game.

Matt

NickMPK · #17 07-30-2007, 05:58 PM

First....I haven't read PNL yet. I preordered from Amazon but no sign of shipping yet.

But I would almost certain buy PNL Vol. 2 if it is not 6-max specific. If it was just about 6-max, I would almost certainly NOT buy it.

This is for the simple reason that 6-max has no application to the games that I play in, which are in casinos. I have yet to find a 6-max game spread in cash games or tournaments.

I hope the authors realize that whatever the title of their book, most of the people who will buy the book are not professional players, and really do not intend to become professional players. Certain, most professional players will be interested in this book, but they will be far outnumbered by the people who just play recreationally (either live or online), and who are not about to seek out a new game just because their might be more money in it for those willing to put serious study in.

phydaux · #18 07-30-2007, 07:47 PM

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You mean the same way that NL players think that they are better people for not playing Limit?

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Yes, exactly.

Speaking as a former limit specialist, many uninformed NL players read Super/System and latch onto Doyle's comments about limit players not having "guts." Frankly, I think it's much harder to play limit well consistently over a long period of time.

phydaux · #19 07-30-2007, 07:54 PM

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What would be more interesting to me is a book on Adapting, not just to 6-max but to any game.

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Matt, you & Sunny could write books and charge by the word and I will stand in like to pay you for them. You're a guy after my own heart.

Best of luck at the tables,

phy

Senator7 · #20 07-30-2007, 10:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

First....I haven't read PNL yet. I preordered from Amazon but no sign of shipping yet.

But I would almost certain buy PNL Vol. 2 if it is not 6-max specific. If it was just about 6-max, I would almost certainly NOT buy it.

This is for the simple reason that 6-max has no application to the games that I play in, which are in casinos. I have yet to find a 6-max game spread in cash games or tournaments.

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Agree 100%.