most passive QQ i've played in recent memory...alternatives?

[DcifrThs]

Game: Foxwoods 20/40

Description: 2nd must move saturday afternoon game. overall fairly meh game, playing a little tight but still ok. some soft spots interspersed but 2 good players and more than a few tighties. game would greatly improve in an hour or 2 thank goodness.

Player: this hand is against Bob (headphones) for those that know him. i'd say he is a great player. he is very knowledgeable and knows that i know he is thinking and good. i'm pretty sure he respects my game and i haven't ever seen him get outta line w/ me....at least ntohing i know of. in the first must move game he 3 bet my opens a few times and i was giving him some sh*t about it. probably no affect on play though.

Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

flop is T88 (suits unimportant). he bets i call.

turn is a 4 (or some blank). he bets i call.

river is another blank (maybe a 7 or something). he bets i call.

thoughts?
Barron

[jkamowitz]

This is big Bob C right?

If so, I like it. He's not going to get out of line preflop here against a good player oop. Maybe he fires three barrels with AK but thats it and that's only if you maybe hollywooded the turn a bit.

If he raised on the button or lp it'd be a different story.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
This is big Bob C right?

[/ QUOTE ]

i believe so. he's like 6foot something i think and i guess you can say "big." very nice guy. wears big silver over ear headphones and friends w/ brett.

[ QUOTE ]

If so, I like it. He's not going to get out of line preflop here against a good player oop. Maybe he fires three barrels with AK but thats it and that's only if you maybe hollywooded the turn a bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly would you say his pf capping range is?

i had it at [TT+,AK]

[ QUOTE ]


If he raised on the button or lp it'd be a different story.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol. duh! the hand woulda been a ton more fun.

Barron

[DcifrThs]

also, the reason i posted this hand is becaause i didn't know how bob's range would mvoe as the hand progressed.

pf i had it at [TT+,AK] given that he raised very early and i 3bet.

the flop bet again didn't change a thing, same range.

the turn bet though, i think AK starts to become much less likely. not quite sure how much less though (i.e. how many hands can i count AK as? )

and on the river, i think AK is way way less likely, though not sure by how much.

also, how would this change if i had JJ?

would raising the flop, calling the 3 bet and foldign the turn bet w/ JJ be better than just calling down ? if so, why? effectively it is kinda the same hand (6 hand difference in range) and if you can do that w/ JJ then QQ should be the same right?

but admittedly he would have less room to hang himswelf w/ JJ if i raise flop so i just called possibly giving AK cheap shots at his 6 v v clean outs.

Barron

[Joe Tall]

Someone told me the 20 was all but dead at Foxwoods, this cant be true...can it?

[ QUOTE ]
Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

[piggity]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the blinds? I'm not sure about FW, but in a lot of rooms the caplessness only applies to a betting round if it was heads up at the beginning of that round.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the blinds? I'm not sure about FW, but in a lot of rooms the caplessness only applies to a betting round if it was heads up at the beginning of that round.

[/ QUOTE ]

The blinds folded. I've gone 10 bets preflop at Foxwoods back in the day, it was a crowning accomplishment.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone told me the 20 was all but dead at Foxwoods, this cant be true...can it?

[/ QUOTE ]

if by "all but dead" that someone means "amazingly alive and great" or "way worse than a time when it was the greatest game in the history of the world" then "it" is true.

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, it is an effective cap imo. when he 4 bets, why would i 5 bet AA/KK here? that just tips him off too much and thus i shouldn't 5 bet QQ. and why should i 5 bet AK? so basically 5 betting:

A) gives away my positional advantage since he knows with too high a confidence level my range

2) nets me only an additional small bet.

and D) hurts my ability to get as many big bets as i could have if i just called (related to number A above)

second off, why shouldn't he 4bet TT pf vs. me, nevermind JJ?

that imo is very standard as it has many advantages that help to override some of my positional advantage. this is fairly standard at least in any online full ring game i've played and have discussed this with many great players and have no doubt in my mind that 4 betting (with a cap, even an effective one though i don't think bob necessarilyt hought that) TT/JJ in bob's shoes is good.

thanks for your input,
Barron

[MitchL]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone told me the 20 was all but dead at Foxwoods, this cant be true...can it?

[/ QUOTE ]

if by "all but dead" that someone means "amazingly alive and great" or "way worse than a time when it was the greatest game in the history of the world" then "it" is true.

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, it is an effective cap imo. when he 4 bets, why would i 5 bet AA/KK here? that just tips him off too much and thus i shouldn't 5 bet QQ. and why should i 5 bet AK? so basically 5 betting:

A) gives away my positional advantage since he knows with too high a confidence level my range

2) nets me only an additional small bet.

and D) hurts my ability to get as many big bets as i could have if i just called (related to number A above)

second off, why shouldn't he 4bet TT pf vs. me, nevermind JJ?

that imo is very standard as it has many advantages that help to override some of my positional advantage. this is fairly standard at least in any online full ring game i've played and have discussed this with many great players and have no doubt in my mind that 4 betting (with a cap, even an effective one though i don't think bob necessarilyt hought that) TT/JJ in bob's shoes is good.

thanks for your input,
Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I would rather err on the side of capping so wide of range that your hand cant be discerned rather than rarely capping, bc of the info it gives. You are forgoing too much value pf and making the bb streets very difficult.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someone told me the 20 was all but dead at Foxwoods, this cant be true...can it?

[/ QUOTE ]

if by "all but dead" that someone means "amazingly alive and great" or "way worse than a time when it was the greatest game in the history of the world" then "it" is true.

[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Hand: bob opens from EP (i think UTG+1). folded to me i 3bet QQ. folded back to him and he caps i call.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no cap HU there and I'm sure Bob is well aware of this, therefore I think you played it fine. I'm feel like he showed you AA-KK here as I doubt he 4-bets HU w/JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

first off, it is an effective cap imo. when he 4 bets, why would i 5 bet AA/KK here? that just tips him off too much and thus i shouldn't 5 bet QQ. and why should i 5 bet AK? so basically 5 betting:

A) gives away my positional advantage since he knows with too high a confidence level my range

2) nets me only an additional small bet.

and D) hurts my ability to get as many big bets as i could have if i just called (related to number A above)

second off, why shouldn't he 4bet TT pf vs. me, nevermind JJ?

that imo is very standard as it has many advantages that help to override some of my positional advantage. this is fairly standard at least in any online full ring game i've played and have discussed this with many great players and have no doubt in my mind that 4 betting (with a cap, even an effective one though i don't think bob necessarilyt hought that) TT/JJ in bob's shoes is good.

thanks for your input,
Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I would rather err on the side of capping so wide of range that your hand cant be discerned rather than rarely capping, bc of the info it gives. You are forgoing too much value pf and making the bb streets very difficult.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you conclude the opposite, then?

in that case, what should my 5 betting range be in position in this spot? [TT+, AQs+]?

Barron