AA waits till turn

[acehole60]

UTG+1 is very bad. Sometimes with spastic aggression and sometimes he's passive. He could almost have ATC here.
BB is a 35/20/2. I havent seen him do anything stupid but he doesnt seem that good.
What do you guys think of this line?

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) HERO is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">HERO raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.6SB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, HERO calls plannning on raising a non spade, non 4/5, turn.

[Tryptamean]

I wouldnt trust these guys to bet the turn. Many cards can come to freeze them or you up. If this was a drier flop with one or two broadway cards, I'd like your plan better. As it is, you are pratically guaranteed 2 more SBs if you raise now.

[numbnuts007]

yeah, I raise while I can. Having utg+1 trapped here is great. utg may not bet the turn and if he does utg+1 may fold. Not to mention that if turn is a spade (which it will be 20% of the time) then you're just calling all the way to the river with a great hand.

I feel like some kind of cliche is appropriate here, like: "a fish in the hand is worth two in the river," or maybe "raise ye pots while ye may."

[numbnuts007]

damn it. that was my addict post. I can't believe I couldn't come up with anything better for my freaking 400th post. Those weren't even good cliches.

[Gurravasa]

think about what BB would donk and act accordingly. I wouldn't be to happy about my hand here against a decent player. Twopair, straight, SD, FD and sets is in his range. If I raise it's because I hope BB reraises and pushes UTG+1 out of the pot. But I would just call flop and reevaluate turn. I don't think I'll raise anywhere in this hand if the board doesn't pair or if I hit a set.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

[ QUOTE ]
think about what BB would donk and act accordingly. I wouldn't be to happy about my hand here against a decent player. Twopair, straight, SD, FD and sets is in his range. If I raise it's because I hope BB reraises and pushes UTG+1 out of the pot. But I would just call flop and reevaluate turn. I don't think I'll raise anywhere in this hand if the board doesn't pair or if I hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

Running bad? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[numbnuts007]

[ QUOTE ]
think about what BB would donk and act accordingly. I wouldn't be to happy about my hand here against a decent player. Twopair, straight, SD, FD and sets is in his range. If I raise it's because I hope BB reraises and pushes UTG+1 out of the pot. But I would just call flop and reevaluate turn. I don't think I'll raise anywhere in this hand if the board doesn't pair or if I hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, really? do others agree with this?

[DrVanNostrin]

Not waiting 'til the turn here would require special read/history for me.

Another consideration is future hands. You'll usually have wiffed this flop and will be peeling with overs/backdoor draws. If you pump it on the flop everytime you have an overpair your flop action gives your hand away. Against observant players this results in being outplayed in future spots like this. There are two ways around this:
1) Raise the flop with overs sometimes
2) Wait for the turn with overpairs

In my experience 1) results in being called down and losing a lot.

[Gurravasa]

[ QUOTE ]
Not waiting 'til the turn here would require special read/history for me.

Another consideration is future hands. You'll usually have wiffed this flop and will be peeling with overs/backdoor draws. If you pump it on the flop everytime you have an overpair your flop action gives your hand away. Against observant players this results in being outplayed in future spots like this. There are two ways around this:
1) Raise the flop with overs sometimes
2) Wait for the turn with overpairs

In my experience 1) results in being called down and losing a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

The more I think about this hand the more I really hate a raise on the flop. It's like telling you opponents: hey I have an overpair and now that you all know you can play accordingly and charge me maximum if you beat me and get away cheaply if you don't. If you're the kind of player that would raise AQ on this flop you can raise an overpair and still get action but if you usually peel this flop with overs then a raise gives your hand away completely.

Raising on the turn makes it harder for villains to read you hand since they may think the turncard helped you. But if you call flop and it goes bet-call on the turn and the turn card connects with the flop you should probably not raise.

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BB will not bet the turn a very large % imo


[/ QUOTE ]
If he don't thats not bad, that probably indicates that his hand is not very strong or that he donked a draw. Now we can act according to that information.


[/ QUOTE ]

IMO its quite bad

This is a flop raise for me because when I call and a K comes of they check, I bet and one of them folds. I want to get value now on the flop while I can


[ QUOTE ]
It's like telling you opponents: hey I have an overpair and now that you all know you can play accordingly and charge me maximum if you beat me and get away cheaply if you don't.

[/ QUOTE ]

They cant know I have an overpair cuz I would also raise any fd, A7, K7, Q7s, J7s, T7s, 97s, 87s, 98dd, T8dd, T9dd 33, 66, 77, 54s. So if they try handreading they will realize that overpairs is only a fraction of my hands. If not its great for me when I have those other hands.