Can't fold the river - a leak? (1/2 Commerce)

[Ryno]

I don't bet/raise-fold too much on the river, perhaps it is a leak. What about these hands -

4-handed mustmove. I raise Jd5d on the button, BB calls. He is basically unknown. Flop is AKx with 1 diamond (the "x" was the diamond), he check-calls. Turn is Kd, check-check. River is 4d, he bets, I raise, he 3-bets, I call.

Second hand, full game, vs. Larry (kinda passive but untiltable likely-marginal-winner). I raise AKo in EMP, he coldcalls button, HU. Flop A33, bet-call. Turn 9, bet-call. River 5. Bet-raise...I call.

[Ian J]

Don't fold either hand on the river IMO. Hand 1 he could have a K or a worse flush enough for sure. Hand 2 really looks like he has AQ and got to the river and it occured to him that he hasn't put in enough action here and decided to raise. Nothing else makes sense for a likely marginal winner.

[DeathDonkey]

Hand 2 is closer to a 3 bet than a fold. Larry sucks but even he will have AQ/AK here enough.

-DeathDonkey

[HOWMANY]

Not bet/folding rivers is definitely a leak, but these two hands definitely aren't spots where I'd feel bad for paying someone off. Hand 1 I don't see why he can't have a King. You probably lose, but it's by no means guaranteed. Hand 2 I would give serious consideration to a 3bet. Obviously you lost the hand, but while playing I have to say that it really smells like AT-AQ

[Gabe]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 is closer to a 3 bet than a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe Larry vs you. Larry does play a little tougher in the 1-2, but ,for Ryno, 3-betting is crazy. (Of course, Ryno's going to say he had AT, now.)

[Smarty]

In both of these hands, I feel like a raise is better than a fold. (Not that raising in either spot is great, but just better than folding.)

[Ryno]

These were both cooler hands, which will make my post look results-oriented. The first one I thought was close, the guy sprung to life in such a weird way that my only hope was a worse flush. He had AA for top full. The second one I pretty much instacalled and Larry had A3. Later a 2+2er raised me on the river and almost folded to my 3bet, so we got talking about raise-folding and I posted these hands. That, and to get a question about LuckyULSA or whatever one slot lower on the board. Anyway glad to see that these calls are standard - thanks.

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
ISecond hand, full game, vs. Larry (kinda passive but untiltable likely-marginal-winner).

[/ QUOTE ]

You got the passive part right.

[Crimson]

You have to call in hand 1, and I'd rather 3 bet the river in hand 2, folding to a 4th bet, than consider folding here.

[Kevin J]

I think you can find a fold in the first hand, because this particular player isn't known (at least to me), to 3-bet a paired board on the river with a non-nut flush.

I'd never fold the second hand in a game I play in regularily. Never... Not just because AK might be good, but because it's obvious to all you have a decent ace. I play weak/tight as it is, and don't want to open myself up to all kinds of two-way river raises from opponents in the future.