how to determine handranges?

[Pancho]

I have a problem figuring out which hands i have to add if someone plays over 30% of their hands.
what does a 40% player play, what 50% and so on.

Can anyone tell me a way to figure out correctly or is there a table for it?

(i know the table at http://www.tworags.com/index.php?ACT...view&ID=82
but that only shows until 32%

Thx

[PantsOnFire]

On Pokerstove, there is a slider that you adjust to any percentage you want.

[Red_Diamond]

I'm puzzled at how they did the calculations for the percentages on that site. I did some manual calcs and concered there is nothing wrong with PS. So one would think that a poker based website, which claims to support EV calculators and the like, could at least get their publicly posted facts accurate.

This is almost as bad as Phil Gordon's screwup of outs in his little book, after spending time trying to explain to the amateurs how to calculate them. I say almost, because at least we all know the internet is full of facts that are flaws. We do expect a little more from hardcopy though.

[KipBond]

I believe PokerStove's %s are based on HU winning calculations. That's just one of various methods you could use. "Playability" might be a better way to determine someone's range. So, even though A8o fair s better than A2s HU, more people will play A2s in a multi-way pot for flush value.

[lgas]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD

[Gonso]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe PokerStove's %s are based on HU winning calculations. That's just one of various methods you could use. "Playability" might be a better way to determine someone's range.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true also, and the program above looks pretty handy, but you can still plug in particular hands in Stove and evaluate against your holding. It's not a real-time solution obviously, but it is important to be aware that that HU showdown value of starting hands doesn't equal hands that are more commonly played.

Eventually someone's going to write a PT compatible program that observes opponent's hand ranges, specifically from the various positions, and be able to evaluate your holding against that range better than players can.

[BaseMetal]

I think the tables shown are too simplistic (oh no... I want to say it depends...)

I think the tables are misleading and to quote the site:
[ QUOTE ]
Use these charts to develop a better sense of the range of hands your opponent is playing. For example, if he's playing 2 hands each orbit in a ten-handed game (20% of his hands), chances are he's playing premium pairs, any broadway and any Ax suited cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no indication if these tables are for Limit or No-Limit and more importantly position is not mentioned. I play limit and mostly play tight but in early position I am perhaps using the 10% hands but when in late position if at least one limp I'll probably be above 30%. Per orbit I probably enter 15 to 20% of pots. I would play different hand ranges at no-limit.

So, I guess this is probably not much help but if I wanted to use tables I would try to develop a collection of tables for blinds, early, middle, and late position that fitted the play.

Good luck,
BaseMetal

[EdmondDantes]

[ QUOTE ]

I have a problem figuring out which hands i have to add if someone plays over 30% of their hands.
what does a 40% player play, what 50% and so on.

Can anyone tell me a way to figure out correctly or is there a table for it?

(i know the table at http://www.tworags.com/index.php?ACT...view&ID=82
but that only shows until 32%

Thx

[/ QUOTE ]

I originally put those hand range charts you reference together to attempt to get some sense of what guys were playing. Despite the haters, I think they’re a good starting point and believe they're accurate. Of course, since poker’s highly situational, you’ll need to make adjustments based on your observations. For example, your opponent likely has a wider range in late position, he could be on a serious hot or cold run of cards, he could be playing on another player’s perceived strength or weakness, etc.

FWIW, here’s what I try to do

Review the charts from time to time to refresh my sense of various ranges;
Observe my opponent’s VP$IP at the table;
Pay attention to the quality or crap he’s showing down;
Observe how often he’s playing the SB;
Make adjustments depending on my table size; and
Use my judgment.

Couple of things to remember…

Completing from the small blind will add 10% to the hand range % at a full (10-handed) table; 16% at a 6-handed table. Also, when you’re thinking about hand ranges, remember that there are 169 poker hands, but those hands can be dealt 1326 ways in total. AKo, for example, can be dealt 12 ways, while AA can be dealt only 6 ways, and AKs can only be dealt 4 ways. Adding suited connectors, for example, boosts his VP$IP less than adding unsuited connectors.

That all said, if you're just looking to check out 30%, 40%, 50% etc., as others have suggested, PokerStove is a great tool for that. I highly recommend it.

Note: PokerStove and I show somewhat different combinations of hands for various percentages. For example, when PS shows a 32% range, they include a number of Kx hands I wouldn't advocate playing and drop several small pairs and suited connectors that I find have good value in position (I play mostly NL). The difference is one of taste, style and perhaps game played. That said, if others see glaring errors, please PM me. Despite other comments in this thread, we do put a high value on the accuracy of our site.

Hope this helps.

Edmond

[wizexel22]

I'm a relative newbie to poker, though in my short time I've done well so far. So now trying to take the game more seriously and so I just heard about this site.

Anyways, are these charts actually valuable? And do you guys actually calculate (or at least mathematically estimate) the % of hands each person plays? I pay attention to the hands players show down, and also if they are playing a lot of hands or not...but its basically just they play a lot or med or few.

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
And do you guys actually calculate (or at least mathematically estimate) the % of hands each person plays?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. I only play 1 table at a time. I have pokerstove open. so say you're at my table and open/raise UTG with T9s. I simply find the range it falls in on pokerstove (19.5%)

I then put the following in for notes on you:

3/6 6 way
UTG:
open/raise w/T9s (19.5%)

If there is a showdown, I of course put notes on your opponents with what they called you with and what seat they were at.

The info builds up after awhile.

Never realized that those 2 yrs in high school, chasing girlz in the typing classes would pay off throughout the rest of my life. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

When you're multi-tabling, it is easy to miss UTG limping in with AA/AKs etc, but open/raising with KQo/s

I also keeps notes like: "bets his J hi flush draws on Flop into 3 when 1st 2 act" "doesn't bet str8 draws on Flop into 3"
Try doing that while playing 4 tables.