Too Many Races?

[mad_gambl3r]

First post here, but I've been reading for awhile. I've recently gotten back into SNGs, and I've been playing both the 60 and 27 turbos on Stars. I find that most of my games generally go the same way:

1) I pretty much fold everything for the first two or three levels, since I'm only playing premiums.

2) I find myself in the last 4-6 players around the BB200 level.

The problem is that I'm almost always one of the shorter stacks at this point, and I mostly get stuck flipping a coin for survival. I guess this wouldn't be so bad, but losing means I'm out, and winning guarantees nothing.

Is this typically the way SNGs go for the better players, or is it possible that I'm doing something wrong?

[otc]

at the early levels you have to make some moves... playing marginal cards in position is essential to surviving the bubble.. try going down some levels and improving your win rate/roi $$$...

also it really should not be a coin flip for survival... shoving hands on the bubble have +EV so you should be better then a coin flip...

the motto for the best SNG players... and im not one of them is "SHOVE MORE" and earlier

[omnipokent]

You almost answer this yourself:
Something should be happening between the first levels and Level 6 (which is BB 200).

[mad_gambl3r]

[ QUOTE ]
at the early levels you have to make some moves... playing marginal cards in position is essential to surviving the bubble.. try going down some levels and improving your win rate/roi $$$...

also it really should not be a coin flip for survival... shoving hands on the bubble have +EV so you should be better then a coin flip...

the motto for the best SNG players... and im not one of them is "SHOVE MORE" and earlier

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I should clarify a bit.

I'm not ridiculously tight in the beginning. I'll call moderate raises with PPs for set value, and I play the big hands aggressively hoping a donk will donate his stack to me, though I'm not going to be calling early position raises with hands like AJos.

I understand the +EV aspect of shoving because of fold equity. I guess I'm not entirely sure when I should start making those types of plays, which I know is heavily dependent on who the villains are and what types of reads I have on them.

[otc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm not entirely sure when I should start making those types of plays, which I know is heavily dependent on who the villains are and what types of reads I have on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

shove mode starts at ~12BB... SHOVE SHOVE SHOVE... with 2 players to the left.. 99+ AJo thats my range at t100 with 1200 left at 8-9bb the range is wider

my idea is that if i double up here i will be in good position to win the torney... 1 first place is better then 2 3rd place

[mad_gambl3r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I'm not entirely sure when I should start making those types of plays, which I know is heavily dependent on who the villains are and what types of reads I have on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

shove mode starts at ~12BB... SHOVE SHOVE SHOVE... with 2 players to the left.. 99+ AJo thats my range at t100 with 1200 left at 8-9bb the range is wider

my idea is that if i double up here i will be in good position to win the torney... 1 first place is better then 2 3rd place

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes sense. I think my recent downswing as made me a little gunshy. Thanks for the help everyone.

[DevinLake]

You didn't get any help, replies to this thread have sucked.

Basically, playing tight early is right. You don't need to make moves in position early. chips you gain early aren't worth nearly as much as the chips you lose when these 'moves' are unsuccessfully.

You want to play your premiums aggressively and chip up early if you can. But, if you can't. You want to maintain your chip stack so that you can maintain fold equity later.

For the end game, you need to learn ICM. It's that simple.

[vers]

shoving a lot from bvb and BTN is essential for survival. Chances are though when you get called you're behind or flipping and you can't really avoid that. You just need to have FE and force other ppl to pick up hands. You're basically just going to get into races, but most of the time you'll be shoving and getting called by racing hands, instead of you calling to be in a race (which I think is much worse for FE reasons).

Devin is right about everything.

[mad_gambl3r]

I think a fair amount of my trouble is knowing what kinds of hands to shove and when.

For example, a hypothetical situation.

Blinds are 100-200 no antes, I'm the short stack with 1400 on the button, and the other stacks are 5000, 5000, and 2100.

Do I shove a hand like A4os and hope to increase my chip stack by over 20%?

If the 3rd chip stack is the BB, I tend to think this is a better play than if he were UTG and folded because:

1) I'm gaining chips while he's losing them at the same time

and

2) He's probably less likely to call with a marginal hand because he's probably dead if he loses whereas the big stacks might be willing to take more risk.

I think I'm losing a lot of value in these types of situations with questionable hands.

[otc]

if its folded to you shove