River value bet?

boss · #1 08-26-2007, 02:44 AM

table is playing loose and wild.

Villain practically plays every hand and calls and raises liberally with weak holdings and draws. Ive seen him do some crazy stuff, such as limping UTG w 82o and raising a draw heavy flop with T5o.

1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP calls, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (10 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP folds, SB calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero?

Hero bets for value?

BigBadBabar · #2 08-26-2007, 02:48 AM

i would check here, but it's pretty close. you have to ask yourself what is he gonna call with, that you beat? maybe ak/aq/at? or 5x? there's not a lot, unless he's a total spaz and has q7 or something, in which case go ahead and do your thing. the problem is also if he raises, can you fold, or do you want to show down? if the latter, check behind imo.

boss · #3 08-26-2007, 03:44 AM

So I have a weak holding against a total spaz that I put on a very large hand range (AK/AQ/AT/A5..KT/K9/QT/Q9 plus a fair selection of random hands. My read is also that he generally has been playing fast so I think he has niether a J nor an 8).

I think that against a better player Id tend to check this hand. A better player wouldnt call with a lot of hands that I beat, and I couldnt call a c/r.

But in this case based on villians "spaziness" he would call with more hands that I beat, but he would also bluff some of his c/r forcing me to call it. So I tend to want to check this one.

Anyone arguments for bet/call? bet/fold?

BigBadBabar · #4 08-26-2007, 03:46 AM

well that's the problem against a spaz, can he spazraise with worse hands that often? betcalling seems awfully gross on this board, but i want to show down, which i why i voted for check behind. against a better player you can betfold and i suppose against this guy too, but the problem is you bet, he raises, you think 'lol he's a spaz' and then call and get shown a better hand a ton of the time [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

teamshaw · #5 08-26-2007, 04:00 AM

I would check here. To lead th flop with 2 players to act I would think that villain caught some of the flop, probably the Jack.

sharpie · #6 08-26-2007, 04:10 AM

I would check behind unless he's a really big showdown monkey, you usually only get value from ace high and if he has a wide range PF he can have a better pair. We also don't know how to handle a check/raise. Here's a good clear value bet: Difference is villain has a lowish PFR%, so when he goes passive I can be fairly sure he has ace high, only hand I'm really worried about is 88 which also might've gone aggressive somewhere given my read. BTW ignore the river check/raise, this won't happen at your limits much.

Full Tilt 8/16 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, SB raises, Hero calls, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.25 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Ah Ks (one pair, nines).
Hero has 5d 7d (two pair, nines and sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.25 BB.

n1_pete · #7 08-26-2007, 05:14 AM

I check behind here. even if spazzing the flop and leading out , what do you beat here? I play it cheaply because still want a showdown and don't see how I can bet for value in this situation.

Bulletproof Monk · #8 08-27-2007, 05:02 AM

yeah i bet here. he has like AK/Q always