Greg Raymer shows his ass on national tv

[SZEppi]

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As for our European friend when says how safe countries are without the public having weapons just check out your neighbors in England.
Since they did a total ban on guns the crime rate has gone through the roof and the same thing is happening in Australia.



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This is flawed and lazy reasoning. Cause and effect isn't so clear. Maybe you get your information from the NRA only.

[unfrgvn]

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congrats on blocking the renewal of the assault weapons ban. i for one am proud that americans can have pure killing machines in their homes.


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Me too!

I know this is not the political forum, but are you in favor of online poker? Shouldn't the government outlaw smoking, it surely kills more people a year then guns do? People really shouldn't be allowed to drive great big cars that use a lot of gas, shouldn't the government step in and ban the manufacture of them? Same with boats, atv's, and trail bikes, just a waste when you really think about it. Lets really get the government involved in every aspect of our private lives, things will surely be better then.

[oldmcycles]

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As for our European friend when says how safe countries are without the public having weapons just check out your neighbors in England.
Since they did a total ban on guns the crime rate has gone through the roof and the same thing is happening in Australia.



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This is flawed and lazy reasoning. Cause and effect isn't so clear. Maybe you get your information from the NRA only.

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BANNING HANDGUNS
HAS NOT REDUCED CRIME IN ENGLAND

In 1997, England’s response to the 1996 acts of a crazed gunman in Dunblane, Scotland was to ban handguns. Rather than place the blame squarely on the shoulders of a murderous madman and a police force that refused to investigate numerous complaints against him, gun-ban extremists fanned the flames of anti-gun hysteria that swept the country, and all law-abiding gun owners were held accountable. Of course, banning handguns did nothing to reduce crime. The Independent On Sunday, along with its online outlet, the Independent.co.uk, reported on July 14 that England (along with Wales) now has the ignoble distinction of experiencing more crime per capita than 17 other developed countries analyzed by the UN Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute. England and Wales ranked first in "very serious" offences, and second in "contact crime"—which includes robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force. "Contact crime" was experienced by 3.6% of those surveyed in England and Wales, compared to 1.9% in the U.S. This latest report reinforces the growing concern over rising crime—especially firearm-related crime—in England. Crime involving firearms increased 8% last year, while handgun use in crime rose 9%. The 1997 ban appears to have had no effect on criminals accessing firearms, as most criminologists could have explained, and the number of handgun-related crimes was higher last year than it has been since 1993. The July 7 edition of the Sunday Mirror reported that some Members of Parliament (MP) are calling for the ban to be revisited. Liberal Democrat MP Lembit Opik wrote England’s Home Secretary, David Blunkett, stating, "The Government should be bold enough to admit that the law has not worked and review the ban. Anyone who wants to get hold of a firearm to commit a crime can buy a gun illegally." Unfortunately for England’s subjects who may be interested in obtaining a handgun for protection against the skyrocketing increase in crime, the Mirror reported that sources close to Blunkett are certain reviewing the ban is "extremely unlikely."

Friday, May 21, 2004


In March of 1996, a deranged man walked into a school in Dunblane, Scotland and killed sixteen children and one teacher. In the aftermath of this heinous tragedy, British politicians sought to reduce violent crime by enacting an injudicious ban on all handguns. Handgun owners were given a February 1998 deadline to turn in their firearms--and they did. The UK was supposed to become a much safer place--but it didn`t. Not by a long shot.

As reported in a May 14 article in the Edmonton Journal, England`s recently released gun-crime statistics for the first five years following the gun-ban indicate a very different outcome than that which was forecast. According to the article, "the incidence of gun crime in England and Wales nearly doubled from 13,874 in 1998 to 24,070 in 2003. And the incidence of firearms murder, while thankfully still very small, has risen 65 per cent," (emphasis added).

The article details statistics from another report issued last year by Britain`s Home Office, which reveal that there has also been a dramatic increase in robberies in recent years. They report that robberies, "rose by 28 per cent in 2002 alone and, since 1998, there has been an increase in the annual average of muggings of more than 100,000. England alone has nearly 400,000 robberies each year, a rate nearly one-quarter higher per capita than that of the United States," (emphasis added).

Monday, 16 July, 2001, 04:50 GMT 05:50 UK
Handgun crime 'up' despite ban
Handgun
Handguns were banned following the Dunblane massacre
A new study suggests the use of handguns in crime rose by 40% in the two years after the weapons were banned.

The research, commissioned by the Countryside Alliance's Campaign for Shooting, has concluded that existing laws are targeting legitimate users of firearms rather than criminals.

The ban on ownership of handguns was introduced in 1997 as a result of the Dunblane massacre, when Thomas Hamilton opened fire at a primary school leaving 16 children and their teacher dead.


Existing gun laws do not lead to crime reduction and a safer place

David Bredin
Campaign for Shooting
But the report suggests that despite the restrictions on ownership the use of handguns in crime is rising.

The Centre for Defence Studies at Kings College in London, which carried out the research, said the number of crimes in which a handgun was reported increased from 2,648 in 1997/98 to 3,685 in 1999/2000.

It also said there was no link between high levels of gun crime and areas where there were still high levels of lawful gun possession.

Of the 20 police areas with the lowest number of legally held firearms, 10 had an above average level of gun crime.

And of the 20 police areas with the highest levels of legally held guns only two had armed crime levels above the average.

Smuggling

The campaign's director, David Bredin, said: "It is crystal clear from the research that the existing gun laws do not lead to crime reduction and a safer place.

"Policy makers have targeted the legitimate sporting and farming communities with ever-tighter laws but the research clearly demonstrates that it is illegal guns which are the real threat to public safety."

He said the rise was largely down to successful smuggling of illegal guns into the country.

Weapons have even been disguised as key rings no larger than a matchbox to get them in, he said.

Other sources of guns include battlefield trophies brought back by soldiers, the illegal conversion of replica firearms including blank firing pistols and the reactivation of weapons which had been deactivated.

Ammunition

Examples of illegally manufactured guns include screwdrivers being adapted to fire off one round, he said.

The Metropolitan Police said its official figures showed a 20% drop in armed robberies of commercial premises between April and July this year, compared with the same period last year.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said that, since April 2001, the Flying Squad has arrested 39 people in connection with 34 armed incidents and seized 52 weapons.

Operation Trident, which investigates "black on black" shootings in the UK, has made more than 300 arrests, recovered 100 firearms and 1,500 rounds of ammunition since it was established a year ago.

The Home Office said measures were being taken to tackle handgun crime, including an intensified effort against illegally smuggled weapons.

Want more?

[Banks2334]

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They always show some gun wielding nut job killing innocent people but never talk about the hundreds of lives saved everyday by ordinary citizens who own a firearm.


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This piece of nonsense was just too good to pass up. Care to explain how armed civilians are saving hundreds of lives everyday?

[TheCount212]

I'm certain the students at Virginia Tech would have appreciated having an armed citizen handy when that lunatic massacred all those people. When the law makes a place a "gun-free zone" that necessarily means that only lawbreakers (bad guys) will be armed.. which is not a healthy situation.

[Banks2334]

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I'm certain the students at Virginia Tech would have appreciated having an armed citizen handy when that lunatic massacred all those people. When the law makes a place a "gun-free zone" that necessarily means that only lawbreakers (bad guys) will be armed.. which is not a healthy situation.

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You don't know whether an armed citizen would have helped the situation or made it worse. I'll take my chances with one bad guy versus a bunch of people trying to play policeman.

[Chump Change]

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It kinda is a big deal.
Put yourself in our shoes, we have been beat down for years by bad propaganda just like poke has been.
Like I said I like you Greg I just want you to have your facts straight when you say stuff like this on national tv.

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Im so sure this has been said already in the thread so my apologies for not fully reading before posting, but...

You quote Greg as saying a hundred members and he says few hundred THOUsand.

Maybe there's another explanation but blah blah, irony, blah blah, talking about propaganda and non-facts when you blatantly mis-quote somebody, blah blah.

[Chump Change]

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By the way Lennartz...I'm sure you are a product of our fantastic school systems but I didn't realize the Consititutional convention was held in 1677....

"but it is in the Constitution, well that has been made about 330 years ago..." [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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LennartZ location says Amsterdam. I doubt he´s a product of the american school system, do you see why?

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...But I know somebody that is of product of that system...

[Chump Change]

The gun issue is one of the most, if the THE most, complex issue out there and unfortunately enough it is the one painted with the most broad strokes by both sides of the fence.

Due to advances in technology the sensibilities of gun laws are forever changing. Pistols and handguns changed the climate tremendously, likewise with semi-automatic and automatic rifles.

Did the founding fathers foresee these radical changes? I'm sure they tried but at the time it was next to impossible to foresee legalizing muskets in an attempt to prepare the populace to defend against tyranny would somehow be on the same page as legalizing an assault rife.

At the same time, studies and history have shown that banning guns has little to no effect on crime. The propensity of violence and fear and hatred in a culture leads to gun deaths, not the other way around.

Anyhow, my 2 cents.

[TexRef]

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I think it's pretty easy to understand that an typical Nightshop owner in a poor neighboorhood has an .45 next to his cashregister. But also there are people who live in suburbia somewhere have 7 Shotguns and more handguns in their home

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One thing that we don't take kindly to in America is politicians deciding what is best for us. Why should someone else get to decide what reasons are ok for me to own a firearm? And what kinds I can own? On a similar note, most Americans don't think that the government should prevent them from playing poker online. Simply put, stay out of our business and our pockets!