Dealers sharing vs keeping their own tokes

David M · #1 01-05-2007, 04:36 PM

I understand that in most houses the dealer keeps their own tokes which is the incentive to deal a swift and pleasant game.

Some pool the tokes.

Would anyone know where I could find any hard data that would show how many hands per down a dealer gets out under each of those scenarios?

I was directed to Masons 3 Essays, and after a quick scanning didn't find anything.

Thanks for any consideration I could receive, David

Photoc · #2 01-05-2007, 05:23 PM

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Would anyone know where I could find any hard data that would show how many hands per down a dealer gets out under each of those scenarios?

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First off, no one keeps this kind of data anywhere. It just doesn't exist and never will.

Lets just say, pooling toke system is a great way to decrease the hands per hour on average and kill the amount dealers make. Also, the overall quality of dealers is sure to be much less.

AKQJ10 · #3 01-05-2007, 05:53 PM

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First off, no one keeps this kind of data anywhere. It just doesn't exist and never will.

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I'm sure Foxwoods has a very good idea how much rake per hour they get out of a table. Even on time-charged games, the Shufflemaster might keep records.

Now getting that data from them would be a much thornier question.

Photoc · #4 01-05-2007, 06:14 PM

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Now getting that data from them would be a much thornier question.

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That's exactly my point. No one will have this information generally available to anyone. But Foxwoods can't even compare the amount of hands on pooled tokes vs non pooled tokes because they dont have access to non pooled HPH.

AKQJ10 · #5 01-05-2007, 06:30 PM

Right, I was imagining that you'd have to compare FW data to the majority of rooms where they keep tokes. But since they would never share that data it's a non-starter.

Maybe some academic could get them to release it on an "anonymous" time-delay basis (e.g. 5 years). The anonymous part doesn't matter too much since there aren't many big rooms that pool.

David M · #6 01-05-2007, 11:09 PM

I spoke w/ Kathy I think it is @ FW back in '03. They pool and she isn't happy with that.

I work @ Ho-Chunk in WI and we are re-opening in 9 days.

That is what I am researching. Everyone says "don't do it", I just think since it's such a prevailing opinion, there should be some data on the subject.

jfk · #7 01-05-2007, 11:18 PM

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That is what I am researching. Everyone says "don't do it", I just think since it's such a prevailing opinion, there should be some data on the subject.

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I don't want this to sound snide, but a basic principle of free enterprise is that incentives work. Individual dealers can markedly impact what they earn through efficiency and offering pleasant service. It's a self driven form of compensation.

Dealing seems like a very dreary job. Providing the hope that doing the job well will increase one's income seems to be a rather beneficial manifestation of capitalism. How can it be beneficial for the better dealers to support the indifferent?

RR · #8 01-06-2007, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I spoke w/ Kathy I think it is @ FW back in '03. They pool and she isn't happy with that.

I work @ Ho-Chunk in WI and we are re-opening in 9 days.

That is what I am researching. Everyone says "don't do it", I just think since it's such a prevailing opinion, there should be some data on the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

The data would be garbage anyway. What are you wanting to know? Ignoring the disincentives to work hard when pooliong any good dealers that might be at Foxwoods will soon leave to go some place where they can keep their own tokes. In places where they do pool there are going to be other things wrong with the games becasue there are certain to be other things they are unfamiliar with as far as running a poker room.

steamboatin · #9 01-06-2007, 01:39 AM

I can offer some personal experience.

I wrote a letter and sent some email to Indiana Gaming in support of poker dealers keeping their own tips. It was approved and the poker dealers at Caesar's IN now keep their own tips. The dealers are much happier, the games are faster and more professional.

If you have a choice, absolutely insist that the dealers keep their own tips. If you ever want to know why, go play poker at Casino Aztar in Evansville, IN.

AKQJ10 · #10 01-06-2007, 03:07 AM

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Ignoring the disincentives to work hard when pooliong any good dealers that might be at Foxwoods will soon leave to go some place where they can keep their own tokes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anecdotally, most of the good FW dealers (yes, there are some) have told me that they have other motives to stay in CT -- family, school, the usual. It makes sense, really. For most people dealing isn't a profession they'd move to pursue at the highest levels and get rewarded better for, just a way to pay the bills. This even holds for some who take pride in doing it well.

If there were a casino down the street letting dealers keep tokes, I'm sure they'd take all the good FW dealers in an instant. But ironically I think it was the misdeeds of the "casino down the street" that led them to institute this policy if I'm not wrong.

To whomever mentioned Kathy Raymond: She's now at the Venetian in LV, last I heard.