So it has been rigged along...

[FrankStallone]

Sniper, I see you evertime the integrity of online poker is in question, you swoop in and you try so hard to convince people it's not rigged. Why? what is your motivation? WIll you eventually just give up when the majority of people accept the fact that online poker is filled with bots and collusion teams. The only reason I can think of why you always try to belittle rigged posts is that your invested somehow. Bots and collusion both fall under the "screwing people over" and thats what I think a lot of people are upset about, so they are very connected.

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
Bots will come to NL in time...but limit has more game selection for the bots to hide in...much more. Limit has the varied bet amount that could kill a bot...let's say the bot is programmed to fold 25% pot or greater bet. Once known, all bets to check for bot is 25.01% Limit this is not possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least on the sites I play, there is way more game selection available in NL than limit.

Why would a bot have to have a discrete "fold point" in any situation? A bot could (to use your example) be programmed to fold 50% of the time to a 25% pot bet, 50.05% of the time to a 25.1% pot bet, and so on.

[Synergistic Explosions]

So you are losing playing online and want to find an excuse or what?

If you are convinced you can't beat the games you are playing, then find a new game. Play stud, or play MTT's, or whatever until you find something you can win at again.

I don't know, I've been playing online for going on four years and just haven't noticed the bots and colluders any more so than before. Although I definately know from talking to players who cheat how easily it can be done. I'm just not convinced it's all that big a deal for the games I play in. I stay away from situations where it might come into play though. It doesn't take me long to know when a game sucks.

Theres just to much money to be made playing online to let this BS scare me away. Although I do suggest all long term winning players do stay away, just to be safe.

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Understand the pressure here to 'prove' the honesty of the games. People have invested their entire self into online poker. To admit they've been duped is next to impossible, in fact it's a personal attack. No, it makes perfect sense. There is no level of evidence that will allow some to admit they've getting cheated, they're just too wrapped up in it.

WIki this: cognitive dissonance .

[/ QUOTE ]

Well until we start seeing everyone losing in the long run then I'll believe you. If the cash keeps on rolling, I will keep on playing. No one is going to listen to you if you say that bots are giving them $200/hr

[/ QUOTE ]

Like so many others, you miss the point. I guarantee that whatever it is you earn it only represents some fraction of what you would win in honest, bot-free games. You ARE being cheated.

[Barrin6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Understand the pressure here to 'prove' the honesty of the games. People have invested their entire self into online poker. To admit they've been duped is next to impossible, in fact it's a personal attack. No, it makes perfect sense. There is no level of evidence that will allow some to admit they've getting cheated, they're just too wrapped up in it.

WIki this: cognitive dissonance .

[/ QUOTE ]

Well until we start seeing everyone losing in the long run then I'll believe you. If the cash keeps on rolling, I will keep on playing. No one is going to listen to you if you say that bots are giving them $200/hr

[/ QUOTE ]

Like so many others, you miss the point. I guarantee that whatever it is you earn it only represents some fraction of what you would win in honest, bot-free games. You ARE being cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]
So what do you suggest? That we quit? What should our course of action be now sir? How do you even know they are winning bot players assuming if there are even bots in the first place?

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you suggest? That we quit? What should our course of action be now sir? How do you even know they are winning bot players assuming if there are even bots in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]

They do sound like Evangelicals blaming the upcoming Armageddon on the Jews.

[HeavilyArmed]

[ QUOTE ]
So what do you suggest? That we quit? What should our course of action be now sir? How do you even know they are winning bot players assuming if there are even bots in the first place?



[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno. We muddle along. We look for the best proposition. But whatever we do, we do not deny the problem and profit from the denial.

[MrDannimal]

[ QUOTE ]
Understand the pressure here to 'prove' the honesty of the games. People have invested their entire self into online poker. To admit they've been duped is next to impossible, in fact it's a personal attack. No, it makes perfect sense. There is no level of evidence that will allow some to admit they've getting cheated, they're just too wrapped up in it.

WIki this: cognitive dissonance .

[/ QUOTE ]

Understand the pressure here to 'prove' the dishonesty of the games. People have invested their entire self into online poker. To admit they are a losing player is next to impossible, in fact it's a personal attack. No, it makes perfect sense. There is no level of evidence that will allow some to admit they're not good enough to beat an honest game, they're just too wrapped up in it.

FYP.

Seriously, it works both ways (although I'd bet the losing player who can't admit it and turns to "must be rigged" outnumbers the winning player who doesn't believe it's rigged).

I have yet to see any kind of credible research done to indicate a site is rigged. It always comes down to the person (usually with a small number of posts) making the claim posting some small number of hands (at best).

If someone could show that over a statistically significant sample, that some aspect of the game was out of whack, I'd listen. I just haven't seen anything close to it yet.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Understand the pressure here to 'prove' the honesty of the games. People have invested their entire self into online poker. To admit they've been duped is next to impossible, in fact it's a personal attack. No, it makes perfect sense. There is no level of evidence that will allow some to admit they've getting cheated, they're just too wrapped up in it.

WIki this: cognitive dissonance .

[/ QUOTE ]

Well until we start seeing everyone losing in the long run then I'll believe you. If the cash keeps on rolling, I will keep on playing. No one is going to listen to you if you say that bots are giving them $200/hr

[/ QUOTE ]

Like so many others, you miss the point. I guarantee that whatever it is you earn it only represents some fraction of what you would win in honest, bot-free games. You ARE being cheated.

[/ QUOTE ]
So what do you suggest? That we quit? What should our course of action be now sir? How do you even know they are winning bot players assuming if there are even bots in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]

quitting is an honorable option if you dont feel that the
game you want to play (the live b&m game) can be secured
online.

if you still want an honest online game then start
demanding that all internet sites adopt the honest holdem
t&c. and start demanding that all internet players demand
the same thing. if they dont then accuse them of being an
ostrich farmer. start challenging the notion that you are
somehow obligated to trust an opponent just because they
claim to be obeying a t&c that describes the live game.
start demanding that they prove that they cannot
track, bot or team. if they cannot or will not provide
proof then rebel.

ray bornert

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Understand the pressure here to 'prove' the honesty of the games. People have invested their entire self into online poker. To admit they've been duped is next to impossible, in fact it's a personal attack. No, it makes perfect sense. There is no level of evidence that will allow some to admit they've getting cheated, they're just too wrapped up in it.

WIki this: cognitive dissonance .

[/ QUOTE ]

Understand the pressure here to 'prove' the dishonesty of the games. People have invested their entire self into online poker. To admit they are a losing player is next to impossible, in fact it's a personal attack. No, it makes perfect sense. There is no level of evidence that will allow some to admit they're not good enough to beat an honest game, they're just too wrapped up in it.

FYP.

Seriously, it works both ways (although I'd bet the losing player who can't admit it and turns to "must be rigged" outnumbers the winning player who doesn't believe it's rigged).

I have yet to see any kind of credible research done to indicate a site is rigged. It always comes down to the person (usually with a small number of posts) making the claim posting some small number of hands (at best).

If someone could show that over a statistically significant sample, that some aspect of the game was out of whack, I'd listen. I just haven't seen anything close to it yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

no site operator is going to create a statistically risky
skew like what you suggest; they would in fact periodically
perform deck selection - you'd never be able to detect this.

or even without deck selection they'd simply imbed a single
bit in a single message that tells one of the attending
players whether or not the deck currently being used is
a win - the comm. channel is very secure and thus nobody
has any hope of detecting this collusion.

it's these types of things that are discussed by real
certification bodies like the ngcb.

ray bornert